OK, so I was playin' some 3/6 Limit 6max tonight and saw this hand go down. Then I looked it over in PT and am still thinking about it. Seems like a good one to analyze. I think they both played it pretty well. What say the BTP MIZORS? Whuddya like, whuddya don't like, whuddya done differently if either player was you? Break it down for me baby! (Darth and Obi Wan were not their names, I just get tired of hero and villain all the time)

POKERSTARS GAME #8993459326: HOLD'EM LIMIT ($3/$6) - 2007/03/20 - 01:35:28 (ET)
Table 'Astrid' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Darth ($113 in chips)
Seat 2: smacksoup ($84 in chips)
Seat 3: rummy2 ($78 in chips)
Seat 4: Obi Wan ($96 in chips)
Seat 5: nene39 ($23 in chips)
Seat 6: snooker1212 ($125 in chips)
nene39: posts small blind $1
snooker1212: posts big blind $3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Darth: raises $3 to $6
smacksoup: folds
rummy2: folds
Obi Wan: raises $3 to $9
nene39: folds
snooker1212: folds
Darth: calls $3
*** FLOP ***
Darth: checks
Obi Wan: bets $3
Darth: calls $3
*** TURN ***
Darth: checks
Obi Wan: bets $6
Darth: raises $6 to $12
Obi Wan: raises $6 to $18
Darth: calls $6
*** RIVER ***
Darth: bets $6
Villain: calls $6
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Darth: shows (a straight, Seven to Jack)
Obi Wan: mucks hand
Darth collected $73 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $76 | Rake $3
Board
Seat 1: Darth showed and won ($73) with a straight, Seven to Jack
Seat 2: smacksoup folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: rummy2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Obi Wan (button) mucked
Seat 5: nene39 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: snooker1212 (big blind) folded before Flop

K hand analysis:

PREFLOP: Obviously you shouldnt come in UTG with JTs. Its way too weak. Do you come in with JTo? No? Well then wtf, JTs is like half a percent better than JTo so wtf are you doing comin in with it. Oh yeah i forgot, you play bad. sry.

Okay so you get three bet by a player whose obviously a few notches above you. He's obv on to you, hes seen you play, he knows you play bad. He puts you onna weak hand, hes got position on you, your pretty much done here. You should fold without even calling off a bet.

Okay so you called the bet and played flopped an OESD. However, the chances are that you are going to miss, and you might be up against a set anyway in which case your odds are pretty bad here. Your oop, and your against a better player. Your HU which means your not getting great odds from the pot, and the FD out there weakens your draw anyway. Clearly, this is a fold. You called obv.

Okay so you make top pair on the turn. However, he probably has a set or an overpair with a diamond draw, making your straight outs pretty bad, and obv the pair is prob not good. He could also have . This is a clear fold. Instead you CR. Then you get three bet.

Now i wont go into a long explanation of why you oughta fold here, but trust me when i tell you this is an obvious fold. Instead you call.

River comes. Congratulations, you have now donked your way into the 47th nuts. Good job. This is obviously not the greatest hand, and you oughta check this river, and hope for a free showdown. Obviously fold if bet into. Instead you bet.

AND SOMEHOW YOU BEAT ME...PLAYED BAD ON EVERY STREET NIHANSIR

OK, so I was actually trying to get some real hand analysis going with this thread which is why I left out our names and erased the part where it says I was dealt . I really am trying to learn something here. Not just be funny. (although I must admit it has been kinda funny so far)

So in that spirit I will tell you my thoughts about the hand from my point of view.

The players at this table really aren't all that good with (at the risk of sounding like an ass) the exception of me and MK. He has watched me play a lot and has played with me quite a few times, so I know he knows my game and my tendencies and above all, he LOVES to push me out of hands with bluff raises and such. He just totally gets off on that and I can't really blame him. If I were him I would think it's funny too. But anyway, it boils down to the fact that when I am playing with him, I have to play a little differently. Which is why I sometimes do stuff like coming in with a raise UTG preflop with . It's his fault really, he's the one who taught me to always raise if I plan on playing in a hand unless I have AA or KK.

So I raised, next 2 dudes fold, MK 3bets, the blinds both fold.

I immediately start wondering if this is one of those times he's just fukkin wit me to make me fold a decent hand cuz he has position on me. Trust me, he loves to do this to me!
Well, I have to call as I already have $6 in and the pot is at $19. So I call and make it $22.

The flop comes down pretty good for me except I don't have any diamonds which would have made it somewhat nicer for me. I check with the intent of calling him if he bets. I didn't want to lead into him in case he was playing with an over pair which is what I was leaning towards thinking he had after his 3 bet PF. He bets, I call. Pot now $28.

The turn comes completing the flush draw and giving me top pair. I decide I'm going to CR him here to rep the flush and/or the straight. He has to think I could have easily called his 3bet PF with something along the lines of . Normally I would lead out with on this flop, but this is the mighty MIZOR MK I am up against so I can see check calling him if I think he does have an overpair. He 3 bets me and I start wondering if he could have 3bet PF with a 7 in his hand. I know that "I" don't normally 3bet someone with a PP less than 99, but he could and does do that. Maybe he has a 7. Nah, I doubt it. I'm liking the overpair thing better. Now that I look back on it I wonder if he would 3bet with QJ PF. Probably would from the button if it's just against me. LOL. But I hadn't thought of QJ during the hand. I call the 3bet in the hopes of either catching my straight or being able to bet into him on the river if I don't so that it will further rep the flush even more because it would look like I didn't want to give him a chance to check behind if I checked and see a free showdown. Pot is now at $64 minus the rake and the river could easily put this pot over $70 and there ain't going to be much folding going on at that point.

Obviously on the river I hit my Yahtzee card as long as he hasn't somehow hit the flush I have been trying to represent because I really don't think he has been playing a flush. SO I bet into him to make him either pay to see my straight or raise me because he actually DID have the flush that I didn't think he had. And if he raises, well, I sure as hell can't lay down this straight so I will make a crying call.

Anyway, those were my thoughts. I'm hoping some of you can give me yours and maybe some alternate ways of playing this that don't necessarily require me folding to him just because I suck and he is a self proclaimed superior player a notch or two above me with position. It'd be nice if someone could point out any fundamental mistakes i may be making in regards to my thinking.

Its very tough to analyze a hand when 2 people know each other so well. You are both thinking levels beyond what i will see from an unemotional analysis of a hand history.

When I read the initial HH before MK's vagina started bleeding, my initial reaction was it looked ok. Knowing what you were thinking when you played the hand is pretty interesting considering u each have strong reads on each other. I dont think you played this as badly as MK is making out..........he just needs a new tampon.

LOLz..I was joking, i think sebby played the hand fine. I wouldnt have played it exactly this way, but i think the way he played it was acceptable. I like a CR on the flop really, because if i have some shit like AK/AQ, this is the ideal flop to get me off my hand. Obviously if do have the dreaded OP, im probably 3 bettin you, then your more or less on notice that you better get there. I could wait till turn to raise, but prob wouldnt on this board. even if i did, your losin an extra bet (assuming you brick off) but your fold equity is fairly substantial on a flop like this, so id say its worth a CR. I dont blame you for not thinking i have a 7 because there is no hand with a 7 in it that i would three bet you PF with, except for 77 obviously. 7s by the way, are probably the lowest PP that i three bet any average/tight-ish player with preflop, the rest of them i usually dump to a raise. Even 7s i dump alot since i play sober now (ugh).

And yeah, i know how you play, and i actually put you on a more solid hand than JTs because i have seen what a mizor you are, and how you actually limp with shit like JTs (LOL). (stop doing that btw, first in/ep=raise/fold) But i figured what the hell, im a favorite over your range still, and anyway its not like ia cant get off a pair of fucking 7s if you decide to turn the heat up...

Anyways i like flop cr. Turn gives you TP, Im not a huge fan of the CR really. As played especially, i prefer a bet on the turn. Your CR is probably not going to get me to fold a better hand (like QQ lets say) and you dont have any diamond redraw and i might. If i dont have a big diamond and/or a pair, im going to muck right here, and you win an extra bet that you might not have won had you bet the turn and made me drop right there. However though, by checking you risk me checking behind which is real bad for you. You now have a pair, and an oesd, but nonetheless there are alot of hands i could have that will beat you on the river, like any combination of overcards/big diamonds. A check behind is bad for you if your CR fails, and in addition, the CR is not going to make me fold a better hand (prob), or a big diamond. Also, if i had an overpair, id be somewhat hard pressed to raise your turn donkbet, although i guess its possible..By the turn though, the boards a little hairy for that though, so i think a donk bet isnt likely to get raised except by a hand thats alot better than yours (straight/flush/set).

So id have CRed/bet instead of called/CRed, thats about all id have done diff...

As far as what i was thinkin, i figured 7s were bettern you mizorly holding, so id 3 bet ya, and if board was bad you raise flops pretty often rather than goin for mizors move of turn CR and shit (bad move usually) so i figured i could get off 7s cheaply if the board came bad.

On flop i figured i was best and bet. On turn when you CRed me, my thought process was probably somethin like 'what? hmm...diamonds? Bullcrap, what are the chances? Pshhh...diamonds my ass! I threebet!' As for what i put you on i wasnt sure, but i was pretty certain that you didnt have me beat, because I obviously i figured youd never put me on a 7 since i 3 bet you. I figured maybe AT with or maybe a set... honestly i also didnt think of JQ either, but now that i look at it JQ was very possible, and i guess there is an argument for saying that with the flush out there and the JQ possibility also, that I overplayed my small straight, but then again if you wanna goto valuetown, your gonna overplay a hand now and then, so meh...