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Double gut shot played correctly?

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Double gut shot played correctly?

Postby briachek » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:51 pm

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with [7c], [9c].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

I called preflop because this looked to be a big pot so I was hoping for a good flop.

Flop: (14 SB) [8d], [Js], [5h] (7 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 raises, CO folds, Button folds, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls.

A flopped double gut shot. A friend of mine suggested 3 betting when it came back to me the second time to build the pot. Comments?

Turn: (13.50 BB) [Kh] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 raises, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (21.50 BB) [9d] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 calls, SB calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 24.50 BB

Results in white below:
SB has Ah Ad (one pair, aces).
UTG has 9h Jh (two pair, jacks and nines).
UTG+2 has Ks Jd (two pair, kings and jacks).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins 24.50 BB.


It would have been a sweet pot but I missed. Did I play this hand wrong at all?
Brian [Js][9s]
Anyone who gets in a fair fight, has no tactical skills.
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Postby phatlad » Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:27 pm

Double gut shot is the same odds as an open-ended straight. I wouldn't raise with it unless I had a flush draw as well.
If you're gonna play trash, expect it to get taken out.

(I hate those people who quote themselves, but that's one of my original lines).
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Postby redhouse » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:40 pm

With five players calling on the flop, this is very much a +ve EV situation since you're drawing to a strong hand (well disguised straight and rainbow flop). Since you have an edge (your hand wins more than its fair share) you want to get money into the pot. I'd raise if the others are loose or calling stations. But driving them out lowers your expected returns - so its really a judgement call based on how you read the table.

Jamming on the flop also has a the nice added effect of tying people to the pot. You'll get paid off by top pair, two pair etc even in obvious situtations where you were drawing to a flush and made it. People also tend to put you on hands like top pair good kicker or two pair and will play back at you with smaller straights/flushes.

Other nice effect - you could drive off gut shots that make a higher straight, like Q10/Q9 in this case. Of course they shouldn't be calling here anyway with the 3 bet... but you get the general drift...

So long story short - raising to build pots if profitable when you have good draws in multihanded loose or even passive games.
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Postby Nortonesque » Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:46 am

Raising a draw is profitable if the extra bets you gain are greater than the odds against your hand. Since you'll likely be in to the river, the odds against your hand winning are about 2:1. So you can raise here if you think you'll get 3 callers or more.

You can probably go either way here -- if you check, UTG+2 may or may not cap it for you, but if you raise, you might lose one or both of the other callers.
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Postby redhouse » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:54 am

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Postby Nortonesque » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:14 pm

Excellent point Redhouse. Typically you use this on the flop, on a loose table, when the bettor is to your left.
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