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Flopped baby flush - how greedy do I get here?

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Flopped baby flush - how greedy do I get here?

Postby growlers » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:36 pm

Live 8-16 game. I am in big blind with [7s] [9s] . The guy in MP1 raiises preflop and two coldcallers in CO and on button. SB folds. I make a marginal call 4 handed.
Preflop raiser is a good competent player who raises with good hands but plays very aggressively after he preflop raises whether he hits or not (which is clearly a leak for him) CO likes to call down with any draw or any piece and coldcalls with strange hands preflop (or at least hands I never would).

Flop [As] [Qs] [2s]

I check, Preflop raiser bets, CO calls, button folds, I checkraise, preflop raiser calls, CO calls.

turn: [5h] I bet, preflop raiser calls, CO calls

River: [9d] I bet, preflop raiser calls, CO folds. I win with my flush (preflop raiser mucks and bitches for 10 minutes.)

Questions:
1) Do I just call the flop and then checkraise the turn? Preflop raiser will clearly bet turn if checked to. CO will clearly call down no matter what if she has high spade.I think I can fold if another spade comes. Do I make more money here by checkraising turn? Or maybe that makes I more obvious I have a flush. Not sure.

2) If I play it the way I did, do I consider checkraising river? Aggressive guy probably has a hand - either AQ/AK/AA/QQ/KsKx so by checking I am screaming "I don't have a flush" and I think he'll bet the river since he is so aggressive. This also might induce CO to call if she has a piece of the board since no one will think I checked a flush.
Or is this just stupid and FPS and I should value bet like I did?

I am interested in improving my maximum win when I flop good hands. I feel like sometimes I play so aggressively I knock people out too early.
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Postby Calaziar » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:42 pm

I think you play the small flush fast in a multiway pot. Too much of a chance somebody has a redraw and you have no other pot control in LHE besides making the draw pay to draw. Milking it shouldn't be necessary and may even be dangerous because even though your bet may give them correct odds, checking gives everyone correct odds and is a worse mistake.

On the river a CR might be ok against this particular field as the CO may call (I think she has a busted flush redraw though so maybe not) but I think it won't work generally.
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Postby Pok 7's » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:12 pm

Well you probably make a little more if you CR the turn, but again that usually screams a big hand. However if, based on your read you believe they'll still call a river bet regardless... you probably make more that way against people who won't fold. Plus if someone happens to be holding a higher spade you're making them pay the maximum to see the final card.

As for your 2nd question, personally I prefer the value betting route.

Glad to see you stopped back in here for your once a quarter posting :wink: . Don't be a stranger we need all the limit players we can get 8-)
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Postby Pok 7's » Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:13 am

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Postby MecosKing » Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:17 am

flop- played fine, you have GOT to get those bets in on the flop, and put as much money in there as you can with a hand that is pretty much guaranteed to be best.

turn- Eh... I dont mind a CR here terribly...decent chance of getting one off but the problem is CRing the flop and checking the turn sometimes makes people suspicious enough that they'll check a decent hand. Also, CRing flop and then CRing turn screams monster, and you might actually get someone to fold that wouldnt otherwise fold. Theres also a chance that if both the PF raisor and the caller have an A, and the PFR checks and the last guy bets, youll have to raise, and the PFR might fold. Of course he might call with a big spade too which is a coup for you...
If your CRing the flop, which i think you have to, i think you need to lead turn. Who knows, you may even get popped by [Ad] [Ks] or [Ac] [Qc], or a mizor might even have a set or somethin, then you get to threebet which is always fun. The thought of giving a free card is just too awful to not bet though IMHO.
River-Eh- i like the lead. The PFR might check behind with just an ace and all those cards out there and a guy behind, and/or the last guy might bet and you raise the PFR out of the pot...etc..etc..etc.. IF your gonna go for the CR, the turn is the place to do it., since yout much more likely to get both mizors to call.

I play it just like you did probly.
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Postby Pok 7's » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:56 am

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Postby antneye » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:54 pm

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