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How could I have played this any better?

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How could I have played this any better?

Postby EscapePlan9 » Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:31 am

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with [Jd], [Ah].
7 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) [6d], [Js], [4c] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) [5h] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB raises, Hero calls.

River: (10 BB) [9h] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Jd Ah (one pair, jacks).
BB has 5d 5c (three of a kind, fives).
Outcome: BB wins 12 BB.


I was outdrawn by hands such as these multiple times last night. That's poker, right? I was ahead on the flop, and re-raised to try to punish drawers, and I get someone drawing to a 2-outter. He checks the turn and I'm thinking he has a small pair overcard kicker or top pair crap kicker, so of course I bet to try to prevent a free card. Perhaps I should have folded right when he check-raised me?

I hate playing so timid with the check-call, but my raises cannot even shut out someone drawing to 2 outs! I know when I raise PF and get a few callers betting on the flop will still give people correct odds to draw. So sometimes I'll wait until the turn. Even that doesn't work. And sometimes it backfires giving people a free card and a nice draw.

I find my two most difficult hands to play are top-pr top-kick and pocket pairs, especially when I make a set with a small-middle pocket pair. I cannot complain that these pocket pairs often hit sets on the flop, but why must the turn give someone else a set?
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another one...

Postby EscapePlan9 » Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:06 am

Another example. I was in mid-late position. I have KK and there's a raiser before me. He seems to be a fairly solid player. I re-raise with the KK to knock out any Ax's from coming in. That works just fine. He calls my raise and we go to the flop (I couldn't get Bison's converter to convert this one correctly for some reason).

Flop: 3, 6, Q (rainbow)
No ace, good. I've seen this guy lead into flops with nothing, so I re-raise him with my overpair. I'm thinking all is well. He smooth calls and we go on to the turn.

Turn: 9
I'm still not sure what he's calling my re-raise with. Just overcards? Aces? Slowplaying the queens? Jacks? AQ? Does he already have a set? I had no idea. He bets the turn and I re-raise again. This time he re-raises me. Now I should have been certain he had a set since there were no visible draws out there. He's betting into someone who re-raised him previously, and now re-raising my re-raise on the turn. I stupidly call.

The river is a blank. He bets and I call. He wins with a set of 9s. Once again I lose to a 2-outter. How else can I play these hands? Should I not re-raise as often? Should I fold if someone re-raises me unless I have a set?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I remember another hand from last night where once again I was in the lead on the flop with a set of 3s yet lost on the turn to a 2-outter and a gutshot. There's three of us at the flop. A loose player limps in late position, I limp in from the SB with 33, the BB checks.

Flop: 3, 6, 9 (rainbow)
raise with my set of 3s, I get re-raised by someone, and I raise back thinking he either has overcards or just thinks I missed the flop. Both of them call the raise.

The turn brings an 8.
I'm still thinking my set is good. I check hoping to induce a bluff. I get a raise and a re-raise in front of me. I stupidly re-raise it back. I wasn't sure if someone had 77 and picked up an open ended str8 draw, if someone had an overpair, or what.

The river brings a 5.
Now that's a scary card. I already thought one of the them might have 77, and now that's the only card needed for the str8. I check, the BB checks, but LP limper raises. We both call.

The LP limped in with the 75s. How would I ever have seen that? He made the str8 on the turn. And the BB? He had 88. Both of them killed me on the turn card! I sure had some terrible luck last night.

Is there anyway I could have played this better? I'm starting to think about not raising so much with my strong hands. But I find that a very weak way to play, and especially since I usually am in the lead on the flop and sometimes the turn when I'm doing these bets. I'd hate to become a more passive player, but I'm not sure how else I can save myself from losing these bets.

Any advice welcome.
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Postby Nortonesque » Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:54 pm

EscapePlan9, the first one is a tricky situation because it's a blind defense -- a lot of people will play back at you if they think you're stealing, so you probably have to call this one down (unless his post flop aggression is very low).

In the second hand it looks like your opponent has something like AQ and is testing you, until he 3-bets the turn. Your preflop 3-bet and raise on both streets are indicating AA/KK/QQ, so he has to have something very strong to 3-bet the turn. Unless he has otherwise shown himself to be a maniac or an idiot, I think you have to put him on AA or QQ here and lay it down. It's a tough laydown to make.

On the last one it's probably best to lead the turn after betting and reraising the flop. You don't really want it to check around when you've got such a strong hand and you've already shown strength. If it gets raised and reraised behind you, you know you're probably sunk (whereas when you check and it gets bet and raised, it's harder to know where you are).
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Postby EscapePlan9 » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:58 pm

Thanks for the help. I agree, I should have lead the turn to still show strength. Then if I get the raise and re-raise, I know I'm beat and would fold easier.
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Postby briachek » Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:12 am

Brian [Js][9s]
Anyone who gets in a fair fight, has no tactical skills.
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Postby MecosKing » Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:39 am

NorthViewBTP: poor old ED
NorthViewBTP: from gun totin beer swiller
NorthViewBTP: to limp wristed defender of fagdom
NorthViewBTP: ALL THINGS TO ALL MEN
NorthViewBTP: IS THE SAME AS NO THINGS TO ANY MAN
--------------------
Mekos King: NV ignoring
Jimmy BTP: he's ignoring me too
Jimmy BTP: obv fell asleep in his colostomy bag
Jimmy BTP: running shite everywhere
---------
neelguru: I gave up politics when I was 6
neelguru: Im dedicating the rest of my life to getting unstuck
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Postby Big_Leon » Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:30 am

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Postby BKAZ » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:56 am

Escape,

Keep playing with these guys. Hitting 2 outers is not a poker skill. It is generally a -EV proposition unless the pot is absolutely huge (over 20 to 1). These beats will balance out over time. Don't automatically start assuming your opponents have great hands just because they play back at you. TPTK with an uncoordinated flop or an overpair should definately be played aggressively and taken to showdown unless the board develops the obvious draws, and then you should only give up if you have high confidence that your beat.

Good Luck

BK
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