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8-16 Live FR - Thoughts on all streets

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8-16 Live FR - Thoughts on all streets

Postby PunkJazz » Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:00 am

the more time you spend feeling happy.....the less time you'll be blue
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Re: 8-16 Live FR - Thoughts on all streets

Postby MecosKing » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:57 pm

NorthViewBTP: poor old ED
NorthViewBTP: from gun totin beer swiller
NorthViewBTP: to limp wristed defender of fagdom
NorthViewBTP: ALL THINGS TO ALL MEN
NorthViewBTP: IS THE SAME AS NO THINGS TO ANY MAN
--------------------
Mekos King: NV ignoring
Jimmy BTP: he's ignoring me too
Jimmy BTP: obv fell asleep in his colostomy bag
Jimmy BTP: running shite everywhere
---------
neelguru: I gave up politics when I was 6
neelguru: Im dedicating the rest of my life to getting unstuck
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Re: 8-16 Live FR - Thoughts on all streets

Postby antneye » Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:49 pm

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Postby growlers » Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:16 pm

I disagee with your premise that IF he is a good TAG, that after you raise UTG, and it is folded around to him in the BB and he three bets, that his range is that narrow to be AK and TT-AA, which is basically what you are saying. I have seen some tight old passive rocks with this range, but not a "good TAG player".

With that caveat said:
I would four bet preflop - you have postion and don't want to give up control of the hand. Why are you not four-betting? Almost any hand I raise UTG I four-bet here headsup except I may not with AA depending on if I think I can manipulate villian postflop well.

You can't fold to the CR on the flop. This could just be a standard blind defense move. You are seeing monsters in the closet and you have 4 outs to likely nuts and possibly overcard outs for one flop bet getting good odds in position. Just call as you did seems reasonable.

I raise turn, but again I don't see how villian's range could possible be what you said. (I have been involved in similar hands against tight old rocks that I might just call down here, but again I suspect that is not really the read here.) Not raising the turn here is really bad. You say "I am likely behind?" What???

The river is a call only. But I would have bloated the pot with many more bets so it would be an easier decision for me anyway :lol:
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Postby MecosKing » Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:08 pm

NorthViewBTP: poor old ED
NorthViewBTP: from gun totin beer swiller
NorthViewBTP: to limp wristed defender of fagdom
NorthViewBTP: ALL THINGS TO ALL MEN
NorthViewBTP: IS THE SAME AS NO THINGS TO ANY MAN
--------------------
Mekos King: NV ignoring
Jimmy BTP: he's ignoring me too
Jimmy BTP: obv fell asleep in his colostomy bag
Jimmy BTP: running shite everywhere
---------
neelguru: I gave up politics when I was 6
neelguru: Im dedicating the rest of my life to getting unstuck
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:42 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California

Postby growlers » Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:39 pm

Well, I am no LAG, and in a live game I play 88-AA, AQ, AK, QK exactly like BB against someone I think is weak-tight (which is how OP described himself) up to and including the turn lead bet.
I smooth call JQs, JTs, AJs, A10s, Q10s preflop since I think I can outplay UTG headsup if I hit a flop.
Everything else I fold.

Note once again that this is critically read dependent on UTG being weak-tight - especially the flop checkraise - that is the best way to get fold equity against such a player on the flop especially on a middle paired board.

I am not saying the Mecos or OP is wrong, I am just providing some fuel for discussion since we are trying to put villian on a range here.
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Postby PunkJazz » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:16 pm

I agree that I should have capped preflop.
I think I should have checked the flop but I'm trying to break the pattern of weakness. :?

I couldn't decide if I was just putting to much weight on the idea of what I think this particular player thinks I have here (does that make sense?) or if I was just being a weak bitch.

Against almost anyone else on these 8-16 tables I think I would have raised that turn. I've played against this player quite a bit and I just don't think he would lead this turn against me without having me beat.

I couldn't decide if I was seeing monsters under the bed, just being my usual weak self, or was making a good read. I guess if I was really making a good read I would have layed it down but then I KNEW that was too weak.

I guess being a puss saved me a couple bets on this hand but I agree I should be capping preflop and raising this turn. At least I could have lost like a man instead of a weak nit. <loser>

Results:
Villain showed QQ for the flopped boat. <nutkick>


Thinking about this from Villains side, should he have played it any different?
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Postby growlers » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:55 pm

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