First, great stats!
Your VP$IP at about 13% seems ultra-tight. Playing Prima which is said to be
so passive ( low PF raising, low PostFlop aggression), I would think one would
make more profit playing more hands-getting good odds to draw out playing
suited connectors and Axs for example, certainly in LP and maybe MP.
Just wanted to get your thoughts here, I'd love to attain your results!
Thanks

thanks boxer!!! I'm glad you were insterested in my stuff about becoming a pro. Are you thinking about it as well??

First off, I'm sorry I haven't been able to provide you with more stats. Prima's hand histories have been down since the 18th of janurary. I can tell you that I finished the month $1k below my $4k goal. No big deal

Anyway, I've been playing mostly 1/2 NL for two weeks now. I'm playing 2-3 tables. I don't think I can play 4 tables at this limit. The skill level goes up a lot... I may play 3 tables of 1/2 NL and a side table of 3/6 limit. The limit tables are actually very soft on prima. Damn that varience though

To counter the better players at 1/2NL, I have become much more aggressive. My VP$IP is probably back to 20% now at least. Supersystem 2 inspired me. I don't play as aggressive as brunson of course...(I don't think his strategy is as effective in a "maxium stack" game) but damn I do take a lot of pots. This gives me a very loose table image and seems to be getting players to call me when I have big hands. My betting patterns hardly ever vary..so it's hard for them to put me on anything. Sometimes I have nothing (rarely), sometimes I'm drawing, and sometimes i have a monster. It's actually a lot more fun to play this way too...takes the grind out a little bit. I'm still learning though...



If you do want to play on prima..at those .50/1.00 limits...I suggest playing around the VP$IP stats I have. I did play suited connectors in LP...but I would fold danger hands like KQ or AQ to any raise. The varience is very low and you get in the habit of knowing how to play each and every top preflop hand. There are so many bad players that the straight foward approach is probably best IMO. I also recommend reading TJ Cloutier's NL Championship Hold'em. It will help you to identify sets, tell you how to bet in certain situtations etc etc. His play is ultra tight..which helps for this style of game. That is still my favorite poker book.

Let me know if you have any other quetsions and I wil help you as best I can.

I would sure like to become a pro, but i have a lot to learn, I've been playing party poker's $25 NL game for a about 3 months now, 4 tabling, and have only turned a very small profit. My problem is I don't know when to be aggressive. I'll raise to 4x BB with QQ, ($2), get a caller, now the pot is about $5, I gotta bet at least $3 to take it down, I get reraised (maybe A or K on flop, maybe he has a set of 5's), so i fold after losing $5 trying to make $2.50.
Next time I call a raise with QQ, flop is J75, the preflop raiser goes all-in, figure he must have a set of Jacks or probably AA or KK, I fold, he shows A-J!
So next time similiar situation, I call with my QQ overpair, and my opponent shows KK and I lose my stack.
So I've taken to only raising with AA or KK, and basically waiting to hit my monster (limping all pairs hoping to spike a set and take someones stack who has TPTK or 2 pair).
Seems every time I try to be aggressive (without AA, KK preflop, or a made hand postflop-set, str8, flush), I lose more than I win. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong, as every big winning player shows at least 5% Preflop aggression.
Anyway, I just started playing Prima .25/.50 NL because I feel my style would work better against passive calling stations as I never feel comfortable going up against an aggressive player without a big hand.
But back to the VP$IP question, ive only played a little on prima so far, but with so little PF raises, at least at .25/.50 NL, i would think playing suited connectors and such would be profitable, even in MP. My PP stats were VP$IP right around 20%, which is very low, at those small stakes anyway. Oh, one more thing i just thought of, the stacks are twice as deep on prima as PP, making me think a higher VP$IP would be more profitable on prima. Let me know if my thinking is flawed here.
Thanks for all the advice I look forward to reading more by you, (and the other winning players here), and i will get cloutiers book, ive heard it recommended before, but thought it was mostly for tourney play.
Also, is there a way to see what the losing hand at showdown was on prima? it doesnt seem to show, even though he called on river.

Good idea on the switch to Prima. Varience is less and the players are so passive it makes for an easy game. The small stacks on party make it hard to put anyone on a particular hand and in most cases you are commietd with good hands. I think there is a lot less skill needed at party poker...but a much bigger bankroll to handle the unending swings.

Honestly, before I started 4-tabling my VP$IP on prima was 30%...so yes..you can defiently win money playing mediocre, drawing hands. However, if you're 4 tabling with mini-view...i don't see the need. After 2 or 3 tables you really lose your reads...and that is such a big part of playing those types of hands. When I started 4 tabling....i didn't have time to get my reads....so i actually made less money per table...but since i was playing 4 tables instead of 2, i was still winning more.

My suggestion is...if you plan on playing two tables, you can go ahead and play those medocre hands. But pay attention to the betting and the players. Make notes as often as possible on the way their hands were played. Its very important when you're in a big pot without the nuts.

If you plan on playing 4 tables...try to get your VP$IP lower, say 15%. You will lose a lot of varience and start becoming a master on how to play top 10 preflop hands. There's just too much going on to follow all that action with drawing hands at 4 tables. At least IMO.

BTW, Cloutier's book does have a lot of tourney advice..but many recomendations apply to cash games as well.

If you go to the lobby and click "menu" then go to "playcheck" you will be able to view previous hands. Right now you can't export the hand histoires to pokertracker..but you can "click" on each seperate hand and they will show you the history on the screen. It takes a few minutes to work because their servers are quite slow. Playcheck takes a few hours to update as well, so you won't be able to view hands immediately after they are played.

Hope this helps!
kenny

I definitely see your point about playing fewer hands the more tables you play. I have poker tracker and take as many notes as I can, the problem is with party poker $25 NL games, they're just are'nt that many players I play with often enough to have significant stats and reads on as so many people come and go in that game. I do of course quickly make a note of the fish (ones who pay 2:1 odds on a jack high flush draw only, or call an all-in preflop with pocket nines) and a note of the ones who appear very solid. Yet because of the large player base, my play is based mostly on ABC poker, ie odds, and much less on "reads", as I agree that playing one table focusing intently on every move by every player will increase my win rate at that table, but I'll still make far less than playing 4 tables. Now prima is a big site, but far smaller that the party giant, so perhaps I'll see the same players much more often, even at the low stakes tables I play.

The way I play connectors and small suited aces are not so much on opponent reads as they are simply on pot/implied odds. Basically, I play them to hit the nuts or close to em. If I'm at a passive table with very rare preflop raises, I'm in LP and at least 3 players limped in, I'll play J-T OFFsuit for example, figuring with 6 players seeing the flop, I'll have odds to hit my str8, and probably drawing odds after the flop as well.

BUT...I am just learning how to beat the game, you are already there, so if you feel I will make more money, or just about the same with less varience, I'll definatly take your advice and drop to 15% VP$IP, that would be easier when 4 tabling for sure!

I need advice mostly on how to master playing the top hands as you say. How should I play JJ for maximum profit at prima .25/.50 tables? lets give an average example...I'm in MP, I raise to 4x bb, I get 2 callers, no jack, but at least one higher card falls, EP checks to me, NO reads on these players (havnet seen enough of to notice anything unusual from them), what should I do? Lets say I bet half the pot, get raised, i guess i drop it right then huh? THATS why i hate raising preflop, I end up losing more than i make in the long run, I know I'm just not doing it right, same with Big Slick, if i dont hit an A or K, I throw a bet out, if they fold, great, but I coulda done that with 7-2! And if I make my TPTK on the flop, and I get raised, I end up losing my stack or most of it at showdown where he shows 2 pair or a set, PLEASE HELP...lol, seriously, what am i doing wrong with aggression?

Also, have you played the LOW stakes games on prima? Do you notice a difference in skill level between say .10/.20 and .25/.50 and .50/$1 ? cuz the .10/.20 games buy in of $20 is closer to partys $25 .25/.50 game, if the players are much worse, maybe I'll make more going down one limit, especially since I'm still a novice. remember my experience is playing PP $25 NL games. On the flip side, I do have the bankroll to play a step higher (prima .50/$1), especially if the variance is lower, IF the players at that level are barely better if at all. Just curious if you know to what extent the play differs.
Thanks again and good luck at the tables!

First of all, sorry about the delay for the reply.

On to the questions

You gave me a situation. You have JJ in MP.. you raised preflop...there are two caller and a ,Q, K or A has hit the flop. Pot is $12 EP checks to you. You need to bet $10-$12 here. $10-$12 everytime you have 1 or 2 callers. You want to put your opponents to a decison. Betting half the pot..$6...usually doesn't do that. You want to show real strength. If they call or raise that $10 bet...then sure..go ahead and fold unless you know they are drawing. Ice did a study about betting the pot on the flop for a month and he calculted he ended up a big winner because of it.

I always try to bet the pot or close to it on the flop. I bet 80%-90% of the time I raise preflop. I do it with a good hand, a bad hand, a drawing hand, it doesn't matter. And I don't vary my bet sizes based on the hands I hold..I only vary my bet sizes on the size of the pot. You're betting big for 3 reasons:

1. muscle mediocre hands out.
2. Make maximze value for your hand
3. to get reads on opponents hands. (it's a lot easier to know they are holding something decent when they call a $10 bet instead of a $5 or $6 bet on.50/1.00.)

Of course if you hold JJ here and get 4 callers and an ace hits the flop...you can go ahead and check the flop. I bet in most situations...but if you know you're beaten and a lot of callers/stations are out there...try and give yourself the free card.

As for AK and TPTK problems. I think we all have those! I recently posted a hand with AK where I lost to a set. I didn't lose my entire $200 stack but I came close losing about $120. This is where those reads, betting big, and position come in handy. It takes a lot of experience to recognize these things and I'm not really sure what to tell you. If you make two big bets on the flop and turn...get called on both without a legit draw out there..you need to go ahead and check the river. Most players will slowplay their sets at that level...

i will say that on Party it's nearly immpossible not to lose your stack to a set when you have TPTK or an overpair. The stacks just aren't deep enough.

I don't know a difference between the lower levels of prima....I never played them so I can't help you. I can say that .50/1.00 and $1/$2 NL have quite a bit of difference...but I guess you can ask me about that when you move up there.

It would be great if ice, MG, rhound or any of the top online NL players here could give you some pointers as well. I'm sure I've missed more then a couple.

Hope this helps.