Hey all

Well everyone is always bitching that no one posts here, so i figured id post a bit of my infinite wisdom. As some of you know, i play pretty much exclusively 10-20 short handed limit on PP + skins.

I have noticed a move that the more aggressive (good?) players have started making more lately, and i think i like it, although it granted, i have been running very choppily lately...like to where when the deuce pairs on the river, i check my TPTK and such...hehe.

In any case, what ive seen is when i threebet an open raiser, i get fourbet ALOT more than i ever used to, with pretty marginal hands, like AJ, and even (GASP) QK (who of course managed to suck out on my AQ, but thats not the point)

Now i sort of like this move, because while i admit that fourbetting someone holding AK when you have AQ AND are in bad position is a -EV move, I tihnk theres alot to be said for it, as it does alot to negate the advantage of position, because it takes the initiative away from the three bettor, at the cost of a single extra bet, and can turn a situation where the LP three bettor will pickup the pot when everyone misses into one where the EP raiser can pickitup when everyone misses.

This move, i think works particularly well in shorthanded, where many pots endup in headsup pissing contests, and where peoples re-raising standards are much lower than on a full table. For example, an open raise from MP on a short table could easily come from a hand as weak as JQ, or even JT, and an aggressive LPer with something as crappy as A9 or even KQ will often 3 bet in an attempt to get the blinds out and resteal from the MPer, who will often have a not-that-great hand. So when the MPer fourbets, he turns a situation where he is OOP with a marginal holding and on the defensive (a bad place to be) to a situation where the reraiser is thrown back on the defensive regardless of his position, because as the game is generally played,even on the over-aggro SH tables, the only hands that are likely to 4bet you are QQ-AA, and maybe AK or JJ or TT if the guy is aggro. But now, i have seen it with hands as weak as A8s, QK, 44, etc.

Now, even if the LP reraiser endsup winning the pot with a better hand, the fear of a 4 bet makes it less likely for someone to abuse thier position and reraise you with a non premium holding, which in turn enables you to better figure out what thier hand is, in the event of a reraise in future hands. People are less inclined to abuse thier position and reraise you with a marginal holding if they have to deal with a four bet and a lead rather than a check and a fold or a check and a call.

Of course, it could also be that every time this happened to me, i happened not to have a a big pair, and/or ended up either getting sucked out, or having to give up the pot.

However, this is something that i have been seeing more of lately, and i think i like it, although i can also see how it could result in a chip-burning fiasco after just a few misfires...

At any rate, i think its something that is coming into style, so to speak, and its something that alal SH limit players should be aware of, if nothing else.

Defending against this strategy is tough mainly because it is so damn expensive, and thats where the power of it lies, which is that a strong/aggressive/aware player, even one whose not afraid to mix it up, especially from position, will be more inclined to stay out of your way, which leaves the weaker, less capable, less aware players as the ones that enter the pot with you, which are obviously the ones you want in the pot with you anyway. And when the strong player does decide to mix it up with you, you can be pretty certain that he's got a big hand, and then you can get away from your hand, leaving him wondering 'GOD! This guys such a dumb maniacal animal- why doesnt he seem to pay me off?'

Of course, if that LPer is me, i will go on full blown tilt after the first time this is done to me and i lose to a dominated hand, and then will start 4 betting every street no matter what i have, and then i will showdown an unimproved AJ at the river and your pocket 3s will win a $400 pot. All the more reason this works!

---Thoughts?