Let me rephrase. What I meant to say is that making plays based on what you think your table image is, is usually useless because most people have no idea what your table image is. All they know is that they like the way their [Jh] looks and theyre playing it no matter what you do.

i had been meaning to start a thread about table image - and ask you guys if u thinks it matters online...theres my answer!

i know that it can be very useful in home games with decent players that think u only raise utg with a monster or CR with monsters etcetera....

the keys to table image obviously are that ur opponents have to be decent players and have paid attention to how YOU play in the past.

if they have no history of your play or call your all ins regardless of what they know about you - then forget table image...right?

Iceman, what evidence do you need to see to drop your default assumption that a certain opponent does not take your image into account and replace it by the assumption that he adjusts to your play?

One level higher: if a good opponent notices that you've played very tight for a while, and you know that he perceives you as such, then (if he thinks you're good) he knows that you will try to take advantage of your tight image by stealing some pots from other decent players. If you then play a couple of hands in a row and he plays back at you, do you assume he has very strong hands (i.e. he adjusted to your image) or that he is playing you (i.e. he adjusted to how you use your image)?

In short, what clues do you pick up to determine on which level your opponent is thinking?

Pieter

I usually assume that the people with TAG numbers are using PT and know that I'm TAG as well, and the people without TAG numbers might be able to remember the last 3 hands or so.

if you are on UB there is an easier test -the way the hand histories and windows all grab focus there is no way you can chat and be using GT+ - so if they type anything other than 'nh' and 'ty' you know they ain't using PT

Table image is a much bigger issue in a live game than online. Online there are so many people coming and going all the time it is much harder to keep everyone straight. Plus there is something about seeing someones face rather than just a name that makes it much easier to keep track of how everyone plays. This is pretty much what I use PT for online since I have been playing 3 or 4 tables. It may be a little different for the guys that play bigger limits on smaller sites where you play with many of the same people over and over again. As for me playing $50 party tables I rarely see the same players, I know that Aperfect10 plays the same tables I do, 4 plus tables at a time and I have only been at the same table with him once .

I think I know what your favorite hand is now.

And also, you contradict yourself a bit. If the player in the second hand truly was paying close attention, he would have noticed that you slowplayed in hand 1, as opposed to playing fast and aggressive. So when you push the turn, he might not put you on a monster since you checked til the river in hand 1. And also, regardless of what your table image is, most people aren't folding those Aces on the turn, and quite frankly, it would be wrong to do so the majority of the time. I suppose you could get away from them in the second hand but even against a tight player I can see an argument for calling.

Sorry Iceman, I formulated my question ambiguously, so let me rephrase.

Although not everyone agrees on what the "right" table image is, most people agree that it is important to be aware of your image and to use it to your advantage. Of course, you can only take advantage of your table image if your opponents adjust to it, and it was the point of your post that most aren't.

But suppose there is a good opponent at your table, and suppose also that he thinks you are a good player. That means he must
1) know that you are a tight player
2) know that you are aware of your tight image
3) know that you will try to use this image to your advantage. For example, he knows that you will occasionally steal pots because people will give you credit for a good hand.

My question alluded to point 3: if you bet into a pot and your opponent plays back at you, then there are two possiblities: first, he might have a very good hand, because he knows you are generally tight and still comes over the top. But second, and this might happen if you are involved in a couple of pots in a row, he might decide you are using your tight image to steal.

So in short, is he simply on level 1, adjusting to the fact that you are tight and therefore only playing strong hands against you, or is he on level 3, adjusting to the fact that you exploit your image?

Pieter

rdale, I was saying the guy inhand #1 did anything wrong at all. I was talking about the guy in hand #2.