Okay guys, here is a really interesting hand I played last night at the Wynn in Vegas. Its 2-5 NL with no max on the buyin. I had $700 in front of me (my original buyin). About 10 hands into the session, I pick up KK in EP and make it $25 to go. All fold to the BB, a player who I actually have a little information on. He seems to play almost every hand and has very liberal calling requirements. He took down a pot earlier calling down with 2nd pair and no kicker and trips on the river. Beyond that, I dont know anything else.

The flop comes Ad Kd Td. Truly a mixed blessing flop, especially against a guy like this. I am either way ahead or way behind. But im pretty sure this is a flop that hit him somehow - how hard I have yet to find out.

There is $50 or so in the pot, and I bet out $25 after he checks to me. He flat calls. I made this bet for several reasons: a) I most likely have the best hand and want to keep him in the hand; cool.gif if not, I want to get information to decide if I am beat or not.

Turn is the 8c He checks to me again and I bet $50 into the $100 pot. He checkraises me another $50 (minimum raise).

What do you do at this point? Flat call or raise? I am assuming nobody here thinks folding is an option (it isnt). If you raise, how much would you raise? What are you putting him on at this point?

Okay, think about this for a second before reading below......

The play I made was to flat call and we can discuss why I decided to that afterwards. The river brings the As filling me up. He bets out $200. Whats your play?

After we get a bunch of answers and discussion, I will tell what happened at the end.

I call his turn min raise. I probably flat call the river again as I think he had A with a kicker of diamonds. If he has A8, oh well but I can't see myself reraising the river bet. To be honest, I probably would have bet it harder on the flop and the turn because I don't want to give someon 3:1 odds to draw to the flush. I would probably be betting about 3/4 the pot both times.

Given that live games are even crazier than online games and people chase more, I would bet more on the flop and turn. This might give you a better read, to see if he has 2 pair or a straight.

Hands that beat you AA (unlikely, no reraise preflop), AK (unlikely, he should have raised you, and you have 2 Ks), AT (maybe), A8 (less likely). You beat QJ, which could explain him just calling to slowplay. The way he's playing it, my guess is he has QJ for the straight, and thinks he is still ahead with you having AQ/AJ.

I think I like this spot and I'll take my chances to take his stack. I only see AT as a reasonably likely hand that beats you.

Hang on.

If he has Cowboys on that flop then he beat 2 pair, the only worry is either AA, a flush including a royal.

Personally I am all for betting a larger flop bet for a start. While your bet does imply you want some action the flat calls don't really give you enough. There are still good drawing odds available given the odds your giving up. I am then going to hammer harder on the turn, 3/4 to a full pot bet again as I want him to know I like my hand and let him re-evaluate.

I think the wildcard in this is that your have barely any information in this guy though the little you do have suggests he is a bit wild. Plus with is a live Vegas game so expect sickness!

When it fills then I am pushing all the way. I lose to a royal or quads aces, oh well. Anything else and its all mine.

Rich

Okay great answers guys. Here is the insane conclusion:

He bets out $200 and I have $500or so left. I do not think he feels I have a hand as strong as a set the way I played the hand. The hands i put him on were:

1. Most likely - AQ with a Qd kicker. He missed the flush draw. When he sees the 3rd A hit the river, he likes his trips.

2. A straight with a Qd in his hand. He still likes his hand figuring i would have bet AK harder.

3. A set of tens and was slowplaying them a bit figuring he had the best hand. He now filled up and thinks his hand is best.

So I move in for my remaining $500 or so. He calls reluctantly and shows AT for a better full house.

Clearly I am apoplectic. I agree, I should have bet more on the turn, but I doubt that would have mattered. Perhaps he would have flat called instead of raised me there if I bet it harder. But my reason for betting half pot was twofold:

1. If I am beat, I can get away from the hand a bit cheaper.
2. If I am ahead, I am playing the hand deceptively and can take his whole stack on the river.

I think in this situation, he folds to a huge reraise on the turn, but if he doesnt hit his 2 outer, I can take most of his stack on the river as he will not be putting me on a set at that point.

I lost $700 on that hand and still want to throw up thinking about it.

I wouldve bet the pot on the flop. I wouldve bet pot again at the turn and if/he still raised me there, I wouldve pushed all in. I really like my hand here.

All the high diamonds are out so only some suited copnnector in diamonds beats me. he sounds like he goes too far with his hands so I think he would play me off with AQ and things like that. He might still go all the way with AT so I would still get stacked, but I dont liek letting him draw to that fluish so cheaply.

In retrospect, I do believe I should have bet at least 3/4 pot on the flop and turn. And I probably should have moved in after the reraise on the turn. I was a little too spooked by the board and should have liked my hand better than I did.

My thought process though was that he was going to pay me off on the river if I was ahead and if I was behind moving in is what he wants me to do.

Unfortunately, he was a fairly weak player but he later made this type of raise with QQ when a K hit the turn. He seemed to like to make a min reraise as a means of gaining information about the hand. Its a bit unusual though with the type of hand he had here. The reraise told me that he had a made hand so when the A hit the river, my instincts were that it was a good card for me. His play on the turn was unintentionally deceptive and led to me losing my whole stack.

Had he flat called my bet on the turn, I would have just called a bet on the river and hoped my set held up. If he checks the river, I know I have the best hand and would get him to pay me off nicely (he wouldnt fold to a $150 bet on the river).

If I played the hand like Ace, he likely calls my pot sized bet on the flop and turn and makes his miracle on the river. But if he raises my pot sized bet on the turn and I move allin, he likely folds the hand.

Thanks Ace, that would have been a much better way to play the hand, and if I was able to put him on AJ I obviously would have played it exactly that way. I was a bit more spooked by the board though than you were and that opened the door for his bad beat.

Yeah I'm liking a pot bet on the flop and a 3/4 pot bet on the turn. I think this is one of those hands where you're going to lose your stack no matter what you do though. That's poker.

to me, he was playing this just like an Ax that might have filled up to a bigger boat on the river. Does everyone but me push all their money in on the river?

No, I wouldve been all in on the turn. Your going to lose you stack no matter what, but hes a 10-1 dog and hes going to call your all in almost every time so why not take HIS stack the other 9 times?

You might not get it all on the river if he doesnt boat up the way you played it.

I think you are right here Ace. If there were only 2 diamonds on board instead of 3, I make that play every time. I guess I was a little spooked by the board, and felt that if he didnt have the flush, he still pays me off nicely on the river (although I probably dont bet his whole stack - but he will pay me another $150).

Of course, the worst of all worlds happened when he hits his 2 outer.

So yes, since Im going to get allin anyway, why not get all the money in on the turn? I was thinking that after the hand Ace and despite the danger of the board, I do think that was the best play (with the same result though).

He claimed afterwards that he would have folded to a reraise on the turn but I dont believe him. Another player told me that he lost 3 buyins earlier in the day on similar plays - that he cant get away from hands and plays marginal hands too aggressively. Maybe on this one he would have learned something, but...

Anyway guys, thanks for the analysis. I do agree with you Ace and typically you and I have similar playing styles. A little more backround here - I have been running really bad lately taking lots of nasty beats and I think as a result, this board spooked me more than it should have. Again, the irony of it is that I ended up taking another really nasty beat.

Why are you calling me Ace? You ARE talking to me right?

Ive had some bad runs that have caused me to get gunshy also so dont feel alone.

Why is everyone so sure he doesn't have a low flush?

He said he'd call with a lot of junk, 89s is preaty high in pile of junk cards.

Hmmm... I guess the real question is just how liberal his calling requirements are.

If he's at all reasonable, I'd be putting him on a flush with the checkraised turn, but possibly also TT or AK (the latter being pretty unlikely given one ace and 3 kings accounted for). He could even have QJ.

In practice, I probably would have flat called the river, but I think moving in is probably a better play.

If he's at all reasonable, I think I'd be putting him on TT at the river (on the turn, I would have considered flush most likely), but he may still be trying to play his flush when beat.

In any case, the only realistic hands that beat you are AA, AK, AT and A8, and there is only 1 AA in the deck and 2 AK possibilities. Maybe that is enough to just flat call the river rather than moving in. I find it very hard to believe that anyone would play AT or A8 like that, but I've seen stranger things happen.

I think I do just flat call the river here, though. I think he has a flush, a straight, or TT--or he's trying to bluff you out of it with God knows what.

Well, having now cheated by reading the results and other analyses, a few extra comments:

I fully agree with betting pot on the flop, but just didn't want to harp on it too much (I'm not at all sure that the half-pot bet wasn't bad here, although it's a little wishy-washy for my taste).

I'm sufficiently scared of the made flush (or straight) that I actually do check the turn, however. I'm taking the free card to fill up.

When the board pairs, I then call a sizeable river bet. If he checks to me, I'd bet it at around half the pot (basically trying to sell the hand). I would have to call if he comes over the top.