Getting over the hump

[Tordan]

Greetings,
New guy here with a question that I haven't seen specifically addressed.

I'm a break even player. I'm 39 and have been playing since Jan of this year. I read everything i can find. I use PT, GT+ and Poker Indicator (which i find very useful if you ignore the overall win percentage). I started at nickle dime at Paradise. Now I mostly play at Party and at a couple of nearby B&Ms.

I have a $500 bankroll and am playing:
$25 nl holdem
2/4 limit (online)
3/6 limit (B&M)

I'm doing pretty well with the learning thing I think, last couple thousand hands at party show me as VP$IP 24% PFR 8% PFA 1.94

Played my first 1500 player tourney yesterday and busted out 1 seat behind the money table (ouch)

Ok here is the question you all saw coming...
Realizing in advance that you don't have anyway of knowing specifically what the holes in my game are, (It might be getting restless); What is the single most important thing to concentrate on now to get over the hump. For the last couple of months I just keep going up and down past break even. I think i might be going brain dead. /grin

[k3nt]

I have had times of breaking even. It's usually due to not feeling comfortable with the games I am playing.

FWIW, I would choose limit or no-limit and stick to it for quite a while. They are very different games and you're not enough of an expert to be really good at both of them yet. I gave up on limit a long time ago, and it's helped me. (I only started playing last November.)

[MecosKing]

Hey Tordan--

Well, without addressing any specific holes in your game (which ultimately you should try and do by posting hands/other crap in the limit/nolimit sections), I would say that your VPIP is too high and your PFA is too low. I am assuming you are playing a full table. If this is the case, you shouldnt be playing more than 20% of your hands, and many would say that even that is pushing it. Your PFA is not bad, but usually, it should be over 2. Your stats actually are by no means that bad, but it just looks like your game could use a tad bit of tightening up.

Other than that, id say you oughta post in the nl/lhe forums and beleive me, you'll get more 'constructive criticism' than you ever imagined!

[rdale]

What is your won money at showdown %, and went to showdown when seeing a flop?

You might be taking a beat hand too far which will cause you to break even, especially if you aren't value betting the river enough.

When I catch myself breaking even over the course of a few days to a week, I look at those two things first. No matter what style whether LAG or TAG you should be folding beat hands when you realize you can't win, and value betting good hands as much as possible. Usually if I'm having a bad run river betting it is because the showdown is going to be three way with a bunch of draws materializing by the river, it seems every hand. One of my other problems in limit is often correctly maximizing on the bigger bet streets, which will cause break even play. Table selection will also cause me to have break even sessions, but I'm reluctant to give up a no limit table unless the action is just horrible.

[Tordan]

[Tordan]

[iceman5]

K3nt made a very good point. Limit and NL are SOOOOOOO different that you shouldnt be playing both until you are very good at one of them and even then, I dont recommend it.

It takes a really long time to really understand how different they are. You dont know enough right now to understand that. Youre probably thinking "how different can they really be". But just take my word for it. You wont be able to answer that question until you have a really deep understanding of both games.

44 UTG is a must fold in limit.....44 UTG is a must call (limp or sometimes even raise) in NL

There are a million differences.

[Tordan]

[iceman5]

NL can be a very scary game, but when you are good, the variance is much lower. You can win (or at least stay close to even ) even when you are not getting great cards.

Theres nothing wrong with playing both of them until you see which better suits you, but I wouldnt go back anf forth everyday. I would play one for a couple weeks and then switch to the other until you get a better feel for which game you like better.

[rdale]

[Dumb Snowman]

[T-Rod]

Tordan,

I play pretty much exclusively 6-max no limit, which makes table selection (imho) much more important (b/c you play a lot more hands).

Until you get more comfortable, I'd try to choose a table where there is not much PFR (at 6-max that's less than 8%). If there few players raising before the flop, then it becomes easier to spot people's premium hands (i.e., when they are raising the probably have something good so fold that K-10 out of position).

TR

[T-Rod]

[Tiburon]

Everybody is exactly right. Limit and NL are INCREDIBLY different games, and have to be learned seperately.

I play almost exclusively limit, but I'll dabble in $25 and $50 NL from time to time. I think most people here will tell you to stick to one for a while before learning another game. If you're playing NL, post hands in the forum. Listen to guys like Tim (trodgers), Andy (excession), iceman, Aisthesis, and the others. They'll help you a bunch.

If you decide to come to the darkside and play limit, there's some really damn good players that peruse that forum too.

Overall, though, I have to agree with some assessments regarding your play. Full ring VP$IP's should be <20%, and we here at BTP like PFA's to be >2. Tighten up, and focus on one game for a few weeks. Get its nuances down, then look to build on what you've learned. THEN, maybe, cross over into the other game.

Either way, good luck!