What is Sweden doing about the suffering in Darfur?

[antneye]

[MecosKing]

[iceman5]

[antneye]

[BigPhish]

[k3nt]

So I already said I like the shed story. I understand why it's an appealing story. It gives the US a "get out of jail free" card. No matter what we do, no matter how badly it is conceived, executed, and turns out, no matter what our motives are, doesn't matter -- nobody is allowed to criticize us. Because we're trying to build a shed.

Fine, I got that. I understand where you guys are coming from.

But can't someone please respond to my main point? Can't any of you guys understand how the US's actions could also be interpreted under the story I made up earlier in the thread? (Call it the "invasion" story.)

The moral of the shed story is, Fuck off, world.

The moral of the invasion story is, Before you tell the world to fuck off, make sure you're actually making things better rather than worse. If you're making them worse, then you need to get off your high horse. You are not the hero of the story. You're the villain. The world is worse off because of your actions.

I would submit that some of the US's actions in the world during the last century or so should definitely be understood as similar to the shed story. World Wars I and II are the most obvious. We built something worth building, and anybody who didn't see that is worth ignoring. The Marshall Plan, too. Helping Eastern Europe during and after the Cold War. Helping Russia make the transition to democracy (though that one's not going great lately). And so on.

I would submit that some of the US's actions in the world during the last century should be understood as similar to the invasion story. Vietnam and Iraq are the most obvious, but also all the bullshit in Latin America during the 1970s and 1980s. Going back a little farther, our little intervention in the Philippines (1890s) is horrifying to read about.


.....

W/r/t the suggestion that the US should stop responding and insisting on being in charge of every foreign policy moment ... I agree! 100 percent I agree.

Let's not attack Iran unilaterally. Let's see how that goes.

Let's not take the lead in Darfur. Let's make the so-called international community live up to its proclaimed ideals and fix things themselves. Let's offer to help, but only be a part of the solution.

Let's cut our military budget way, way, way back. RIght now it's more than the military budget of every other country in the world. Let's cut it in half, tomorrow, and then let's insist that our allies build up their military spending and capabilities to make up the difference.

Right now what we have is an overly militarized USA that loves war way, way too much. And we have an overly pacifist rest of the western world that nitpicks from the sidelines. The rest of the world needs to change, to stop nitpicking. I agree with Ice on this 100%. But imo we also need to change, to be less certain that our view of things is the only one that matters.

In short ... is it fair to say that we Americans could stand to balance our contempt for other nations with a little healthy self-criticism?

[DoctorHandles]

[antneye]

[k3nt]

[antneye]

[black_knight6]

[Bosox1]

[iceman5]

[antneye]

[kennyg]