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Well, here's a hand for y'all to analyze

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Well, here's a hand for y'all to analyze

Postby phatlad » Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:44 am

It's not NL either, it's PL, but since there's no PL section, I'll put it here.

Here's a preface. I'm exclusively a limit player. I had a bad run earlier tonight and decided to try out the new blinds structure of the PL/NL tables.

I'd have you try to guess the hands, but this hand was entirely nutty, and I played a hand that should've been mucked in the first place.

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed)

BB ($34.2)
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($12.2)
Hero ($21.25)
MP2 ($16.15)
MP3 ($69.05)
CO ($25)
Button ($32.55)
SB ($29.5)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with [9s], [Ks]. UTG posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, MP2 raises to $1.35, 1 fold, CO calls $1.35, 2 folds, BB calls $1.10, UTG folds, Hero calls $1.10.

Flop: ($5.75) [Ts], [Kc], [8s] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $5.5, MP2 calls $5.50, CO folds, BB calls $5.50.

Turn: ($22.25) [5d] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $14.4 (All-In), MP2 calls $9.30 (All-In), BB calls $14.40.

River: ($60.35) [9d] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $60.35

Results in white below:
BB has 4s As (high card, ace).
Hero has 9s Ks (two pair, kings and nines).
MP2 has 9h 7c (one pair, nines).
Outcome: Hero wins $60.35.

Brutal critiques, please. I'm obviously damn glad another spade didn't come, and I have no idea what the hell the preflop raiser was doing.

I feel I played this hand pretty well post-flop. If I am mistaken, let me have it.
If you're gonna play trash, expect it to get taken out.

(I hate those people who quote themselves, but that's one of my original lines).
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Postby MHFlush » Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:57 am

Brutal critique, especially on PL, is what I like ;-)

Preflop: [Ks] [9s] in MP should be folded. After the raise you were the last to act and you had 3 callers and in my opinion your call was justified.

Flop: [Ts] [Kc] [8s] You have top pair with relatively low kicker and nearly nut flush. In an unraised pot I would have bet the pot, like you did. In a raised pot, on the other hand, your [Ks] with a weak kicker does not mean much so you have simply outs for the Flush. Therefore, I would have checked.

Turn: [9d] Does not help you. Here I would have checked for sure. You had still two callers in a raised pot on the flop, which is a sign of strength.

By the way, MP2s straight-chasing was very weak, BBs Nut-flush chasing was okay on the flop, but on the turn he had only a 1:5 chance to hit the Flush but called anyway, which was weak.
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Postby Rhound50 » Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:18 pm

Brutal critque ok i guess I can do that. First off I dont like you limping with K9, K9 is really a suckers hand, no way to make the nut straight and you are utterly dominated by AK. So I fold this hand, and I certainly dont call a raise with it. In this situation I would rather be playin [3s] [4s] to call this raise. That said the flop is just about as good as you can ask for for your hand. I like your flop bet but I'm really afraid of AK here if I'm you, yes you have outs but if you get reraised you are going to be in a tough spot. The fact that he just called seems to indicate that he doesnt have AK. I'm not sure why you go all in when you dont improve on the turn, this I dont like. Your hand got weaker and you bet more, they both called your turn bet and you dont have enough to make them fold. Turns out you were ahead but I think this bites more than it works. Someone with KJ or KQ here is still going to call and you are a big underog.
"Its a pink handbag not backpack damn it." Godlikeroy

"From playing full tilt I wanna smash every garden gnome I see. That travelocity commercial puts me on instant tilt."
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Postby phatlad » Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:34 pm

Thanks guys.

Like I said, I knew K9 was crap and shoulda been mucked. I really don't know why I played it. But when that flop hit, I bet the pot to see where I was at and to see if the preflop raiser had slick. A reraise and I fold.

I moved all in on the turn as a semi-bluff, which apparently was the wrong thing to do. My thinking was "I have top pair and good outs to the flush." I figured if the spade hits, I win. Obviously, that woulda been wrong.

So what's the best play on the turn? I've already bet the pot showing strength. Do I put another $5 bet out there? Check and call? Check and fold?

All I can say is this: I don't know how the hell you guys do this every day. This one hand was enough to scare me away from no limit/pot limit. (I'm sure my thinking would be different had my hand actually been playabe from the get go :lol: )

Thanks guys
If you're gonna play trash, expect it to get taken out.

(I hate those people who quote themselves, but that's one of my original lines).
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Postby Smokin'Al » Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:30 pm

Nobody's mentioned a check-raise on the flop here, but your stack size looks well suited to this:

$5 in the pot, so if MP (p-f raiser) bets the pot then there's $10. Say MP gets one caller, that's $15 in the pot by the time it gets back to you. You can then reraise all-in: lots of dead money, a respectable bit of fold equity, and no need to make tricky decisions on the turn/river.

If you lead the pot in the pre-flop raiser, conversely, he will often reraise and shut out the rest of the field, leaving you heads up, probably with a 47% of winning the pot.

In general check raises work quite well when (i) you are immediately to the left of the pre-flop raiser, and (ii) you can get all in without overbetting the pot by too much.

Obviously it wouldn't have worked too well in this case, as the pre-flop raiser was just mucking about.

Oh yeah, and don't limp with K9s pre-flop! (And fold to the raise - the stacks aren't big enough for your small chance of connecting with the flop.)
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Postby Rhound50 » Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:56 pm

Phatlad you get used to the swings if you play enough no limit. I've gotten to the point that my heart doesnt really get pupming until there is at least a couple hundred in the pot. I think the correct play is to check the turn, you really dont want to be all in here, the only hands that put you all in here are hands that have you beat and you are going to have to decide if you are stong enough to be all-in on your draw. If you are going to push all your chips in it should have been on the flop. Assuming your spades are clean(it is hard to think that your opponant would call all in with just a flush draw), you have 14 outs which puts you even money with AK. I actually didn't consider check raising but after Al suggested I agree. An all in check raise gives you a good fold equity a bunch of potential dead money in a pot where you are going to be 50/50 or better most likely.
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Postby Gregor » Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:41 am

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