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Playing High PP (Revisited)

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Playing High PP (Revisited)

Postby APerfect10 » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:38 pm

High PP are killing me. I've gone up against sets 20% of my AA, KK, QQ hands over the past week. I'm not extremely proud of my play here especially since I lost my stack. Please analyze...

I have very little information on my opponent. I've only seen him play 60 hands or so. He's extremely tight and borderline passive/aggressive; however, I'm not sure how reliable these stats are since it has only been 60 hands.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed)

SB ($70.1)
BB ($59.2)
UTG ($78)
UTG+1 ($38.25)
UTG+2 ($0)
MP1 ($46.35)
MP2 ($49.5)
APerfect10 ($62.1)
CO ($62.75)
Button ($45.4)

Preflop: APerfect10 is MP3 with [Ac], [Ah]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, APerfect10 raises to $2, 4 folds, UTG calls $2, MP1 calls $2, MP2 folds.

Flop: ($8.25) [3c], [Jc], [2s] (4 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, APerfect10 bets $6, UTG folds, MP1 raises to $12, APerfect10 raises to $18, MP1 calls $6.

Turn: ($44.25) [Kd] (3 players)
MP1 checks, APerfect10 calls $42.10 (All-In), MP1 calls $25.85 (All-In).

River: ($112.20) [2d] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $112.20

Results in white below:
MP1 has Jd Js (full house, jacks full of twos).
APerfect10 has Ac Ah (two pair, aces and twos).
Outcome: MP1 wins $95.95. APerfect10 wins $16.25.


Here is what is going through my head.

Pre flop, I have 2-3 limpers in front of me of which only 2 call my raise and 1 folds. I am now the last to act.

After the flop and it checks to me, I bet the pot like I would do with any hand I pre flop raise. MP1 reraises me 2x my bet. My initial thought is set. I think there is no way that he is on JJ as he wouldnt limp before the flop. Maybe he's on a set of 2's or 3's? Or maybe he is just on AJ and letting me know that he really does have the jack and does not want me trying to steal the pot. I frequently reraise someone who raises pre flop, then is the last to act and bets the pot. So this does not necessarily mean JJ. I reraise for 2 reasons.

1. I want to know if he's on the set as I think he'll reraise me all-in if he's on Jacks or even possibly the others.
2. I want to let himk know that I really do have a hand possibly a set of Jacks (if he is on a lower set)

If he reraises me back, I call/fold (if no A) or just fold if the reraise is too great. Since he does not push back I assumed wrong information.

The turn comes a K. My first thought is he on KJ? Doubtful as I can not see him limping from MP1. If he's one of the lower sets I want him to continue to think I have JJ or KK. If he's on JJ, I want him to think I'm on KK. He had to know I was on an over pair JJ-AA. If I push now, I just get my chips in the middle sooner rather than later.

Unfortunately this did not work out at all. I am really tired of losing so many high PP to flopped sets. Its at the point of ridiculous. I know this hand was played poorly and I probably should've not been so aggressive. Please give me your thoughts on my hand and how you would've played it. How do you handle high PP against flopped sets. I tried to get information; however, the information I thought I had was completely wrong.

Thanks for the help!
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Postby Suhleafs » Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:16 pm

first off, if there were 2 limpers, I would raise it to 3 dollars, a pot-sized raise.

Next, you bet 6 bucks on the flop, that's fine, but when you got raised to 12, why would you only re-raise it to 18?
If you made it to even 25 or 30, then he came back over the top, you would know that your hand was beat and could make the solid laydown. In this case though, you did have the [Ac] which does give you a backdoor flush opportunity, so you can know that he's not being aggressive with the nut flush draw.

Because of that fact, I would just call to see what the turn brings. When the King comes, and assuming you went this route, you would have 48 dollars left. If you did a weak lead for about 15-20, and got raised over the top, then you can for sure know that your hand is no good. You would have commited half your stack at this point, but at the least you know you can lay the aces down.
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Postby chpstlk4m » Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:02 am

10, i feel ur pain, b/c i am on the same kind of streak with high pairs. On that board it is a tough call as to whether or not he is on and set especially the way he played the hand. But u did state that he is a tight player and passive/aggressive.............so if u go back and read what u wrote it will tell u a lot. He limps not wanting to overcommit himself to a pot(tight).......he calls a $1.50 out of position(passive, but not enough to make him really think about it)..........checks to u and reraises a pretty sizeable amount. What did ur instincts really tell u at that moment? A tight player is not going to reraise u there with AJ he will call the $6 and see how big the bet is on the turn and then decide whether or not u r on a big pair. I do agree with suhleafs though, that a pot size bet is good in that spot preflop or maybe even $4. Ideally u want to get that pot heads-up.

Also, it doesn't say who went all in after the turn. I'm guessin it was u. If so, i'm just curious as to why? K on turn should def. put off some bells but, all the money is prob. gonna get in ther anyway so..........
See ya on the rail!
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Postby iceman5 » Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:16 am

Big pairs can be tough at times. There are no set in stone rules but le me just throw this out there.

1) Raise more preflop. Even with no limpers you can raise to $3 (6 BBs) as long as you raise that much now and then with AK and other hands. I used to get big pairs beta all the time, but I raise more now and it happens much less. If there are 2-4 limpers, I raise to 8BBs. If they fold....I dont care. Beleive me, your results will be better by raising more preflop. About the only time I raise to 4BBs now is if Im the button and im open raising. If one of the blinds has a large stack, I might still open raise to 5BBs.

2) Heres the big one. When you raise preflop and then get check raised the min, you will have a +EV situation if you fold EVERY TIME. Now you cant fold every time if you play alot of the same players all the time because they will run over you, but believe me....you will lose most of these hands when the action looks like this.

3) Forget about trying to represent a higher set. Hes not folding ANY set in a raised pot with that board.

There are more ways to play big pairs better , but start with these and I think your results will improve.
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Postby APerfect10 » Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:53 am

Thanks for the advice guys. This is definately an area of my game that I need to improve. I will take your advice Iceman and see how things turn out.

Regarding my play, I definatey do not like the all-in call on the turn. Either he folds and I win a pot I more than likely would have won not going all-in or he calls and I lose my stack to a set. Definately a very bad play.

chpstlk4m, you are definately right. I should've trusted my reads on him more as he acted just as a weak tight player would.
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Postby Gregor » Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:43 am

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Postby iceman5 » Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:33 am

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