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Hand Analysis

Postby APerfect10 » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:34 pm

Thoughts and comments please. Any way to avoid this horrible play by CO? I was trying to represent either AT or a lower set (boat on the turn) yet this moron continues to call. Should I have just folded on the flop? I knew one of the 2 players had to have an over pair greater than mine and the one did with QQ; however, my representation made him fold.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed)

Hero ($47.5)
BB ($17.5)
UTG ($64.05)
UTG+1 ($48.75)
MP1 ($57.2)
MP2 ($43.5)
MP3 ($85.45)
CO ($41.1)
Button ($33.6)

Preflop: Hero is SB with [Jh], [Js]. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, MP2 raises to $1.5, 1 fold, CO raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero (poster) calls $2.75, 1 fold, UTG folds, MP2 calls $1.50.

Flop: ($10) [Th], [2c], [4c] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $3, CO calls $3, Hero raises to $6, MP2 calls $3, CO calls $3.

Turn: ($28) [Ts] (3 players)
Hero bets $20, MP2 folds, CO calls $20.

River: ($68) [5c] (2 players)
Hero calls $18.50 (All-In), CO calls $12.10 (All-In).

Final Pot: $98.60

Results in white below:
Hero has Jh Js (two pair, jacks and tens).
CO has Kc Ac (flush, ace high).
Outcome: CO wins $92.20. Hero wins $6.40.
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Postby kennyg » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:54 pm

I'd make a much bigger raise on the flop...like $12...

If they call that then I check/fold the hand. Your min raise really didn't identify what you were up against.

Also trying to represent a hand against Party Poker players on this limit probably isn't advisable. As you can see..they don't like to fold.
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Postby MVPSPORTS » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:06 pm

10,

I think if you wanted to represent a big pair on the flop, you shouldve raised much more than the min on the flop... Both of the players had reason to call (1 overpair and 1 nut flush draw)... I think if you would've raised much more, they both would've folded and "it's better to win a small pot than lose a big one"... When the board paired, I certainly would've folded to your bet, but he didn't, and I'm assuming nothing would've because you already bet more than 2/3 of his stack. Honestly, I would've either made a large stab at the pot on the flop, and if they called/raised, I probably would've slowed down and lost a smaller pot or I would've checked, and if someone bet big I would fold. You were in crappy position, and I really hate Jacks... I pretty much play Js like any other mid-pair, go strong if I hit the trips, slow down if I don't...
my 2 cents...
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Postby MVPSPORTS » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:07 pm

Sorry Kenny I guess I type slower than you... didn't mean to copy...
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Postby APerfect10 » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:47 pm

Typically I dont like to semi-bluff or represent something at this level due to the reasons that Kenny already stated. I'm not sure about a larger re-raise there but maybe I should've pushed on the turn. I put all of my chips in anyways and since I am wanting him to fold a push probably would've done it.

Thanks for the comments guys.
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Postby Mad Genius » Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:48 pm

I would just fold the flop. When you play JJ to a raise AND re-raise preflop, I would drop it on the flop everytime unless I hit a set. Otherwise you are gonna be losing a lot of money over the long run, because even though the re-raiser had AK in this particular case, he will almost always have AA or KK.
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Postby kennyg » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:47 pm

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Postby Rhound50 » Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:11 am

Good rule of thumb for party poker, never ever min raise, it will get you killed every time. ok so maybe I'm exagerating a liitle, there are a couple of occasions I will min raise but they are very rare. Your problem here is as follows, your min raise is easy for him to call, he has the nut flush draw, you are giving him odds to call, than the turn is a blank and you bet l$20 into a $30+ pot. If he thinks his overcards are good he is still getting odds to call he has 15 outs and he is calling $20 to win $50+ he still has odds to call. Plus with the board the way it is it is hard to think that you have a boat already. I think the correct play here is either to fold post flop, or instead of raising to min on the flop make it $15, he is most likely still going to call but at least you are not making the calling stations play correct.
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