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Hypothetical: TT vs KK

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Hypothetical: TT vs KK

Postby DaFish » Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:50 am

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Postby EscapePlan9 » Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:56 am

If we know he has KK, re-raising is clearly not the correct play. And if you hit your set, you will more than likely stack him. So calling is certainly the best play here in this hypothetical "know his hand already" scenario. Only continue with the hand if you hit your set since you know you need it to win.
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Postby DaFish » Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:15 am

Ok that makes sense here, we have the implied odds to play just for set value.

But what if we dont know he has KK, and the flop is 722 rainbow for example.
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Postby Stelvask » Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:23 am

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Postby GodlikeRoy » Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:35 pm

I think this is a pretty easy fold preflop.

What is a tight players opening range from EP? It's JJ+ and AK. Maybe AQ. I see no reason to put chips in the middle when you're an underdog to their range. Calling for set value? Ok you're getting about 11:1, and you'll hit about one in 8 times. Sounds like correct odds, but this doesn't take into account set-over-set, the times you flop a set and he misses with AK(/AQ) or the times he gets away from his overpair. If the raise was a minraise (to 60) i instantly call, if it was a raise to 90 i'd call/fold depending on the opponent, but a raise to 120 i'll instafold.

I think this situation is more interesting if you have JJ or QQ.
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Postby DaFish » Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:42 pm

That's true Roy, lets say AK/AQ + a few more when he's bored, maybe about 40 hands. With TT we're facing 24 pairs, so we're ahead most of the time but dont know it if he c-bets.

Plus, he might hit the board with unpaired hands of course.

Would be interesting to know what PP we need exactly, TT or JJ?
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Postby Irexes » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:02 pm

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Postby EscapePlan9 » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:20 pm

Never fear set over set. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've lost set over set on the flop in the thousands of SNGs I've played. The possibility of taking his entire stack for a small cost to your own is too much to pass up. On a flop of 722 and him betting out, fold. With an MTT, you can try for some post-flop play, but with SNGs, don't throw in more chips here. You're only ahead of AK and maybe AQ from this raiser. You'll lose to JJ+ too often here.

These players will almost assuredly never fold the overpair here. Complete bullocks to think otherwise. I'd even have a tough time folding KK or AA on a T72 flop in a SNG. Say I bet out with KK and am re-raised. He could have JJ, QQ, Tx or something worse (I stack players all the time who have Tx here), so I'd definitely not fold. I'd probably 3-bet all-in.

Those 120 chips really don't matter that much when you compare it to your ENORMOUS implied odds here. Think about it... you can take the blinds once at 50/100 and gain your 120 back. You're not in terrible shape by calling, having 1300 left, and then folding on the flop. Having nearly 3000 chips, on the other hand, puts you in good shape.
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