AA and KK killed me today. Here's one example I got away from.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($200)
Hero ($284.45)
UTG+1 ($100.70)
MP1 ($89.15)
MP2 ($233.45)
MP3 ($177.55)
CO ($185.05)
Button ($218.30)
SB ($231.35)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with , . (I raised to $10..converter not working correctly.)
1 fold, MP1 calls $10, MP2 calls $10, 2 folds, Button calls $10, 2 folds.

Flop: , , (4 players)
Hero bets $30, MP1 calls $30, MP2 folds, Button calls $30.

Turn: (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, Button bets $133, Hero folds, MP1 calls $49.15 (All-In).

River: ($281.15) (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $281.15

Results in white below:
MP1 has 7h 7c (full house, sevens full of nines).
Button has As Js (flush, ace high).
Outcome: MP1 wins $197.30. Button wins $83.85.

Well if it makes you feel better they both had you beat.

Kenny... how come you didn't raise PF? Also, what do you think you would've done if one (or both) of them would've raised your flop bet instead of simply calling...?

I think since he was UTG he was hoping to limp raise, that looks like a decent flop for KK.

Rhound, then aren't you kinda screwing yourself if 5 other people simply limp in?

I changed it the first post.. the converter messed it up...a lot of times I will limp in that spot..but the table was too passive. I raised to $10 and surprisingly got a couple of callers.

If the 77 had raised my flop bet..he would have made more money from me.

MVP..if you limp with KK or AA UTG and you get a bunch of limpers... you just don't play the hand strong. No reason to lose a stack with a big pair if you have a ton of people in.

Yes. If you limp preflop with them, you are just trying to get set over set. Rare, but it's guaranteed to win you a stack. Otherwise, there is no need to play your hand too fast to win the blinds.

I limp ALOT in EP with AA and KK. When I get time later, Im going to check my stats and I'l post my results when limping and when raising from EP.

Lower games I see little value in limping AA and KK upfront. 1/2 and select .50/1 games I've found limping ok.

There are tons of situations that come up for making AA and to a lesser extent KK played passively extremely profitable. The most notable is an aggressive late position player that you can either reraise to isolate or attempt to milk post flop. Smaller games with less aggressive opponents, I don't monkey around with AA and never KK they are going to pay to catch a three outer.

Ice or any of you guys... can you talk for a second about the benefits of limping w/ AA, KK v. the obvious downfalls...

MVP, the point of limping UTG with big pairs is the limp raise. The ideal scenario is someone from EP or Mp raises and others call, than you can make a big reraise from utg with a good amount of dead money in the middle, if they all fold you win a decent pot with no risk of getting out flopped, or if someone calls your reraise is big enough that they have to call a nice chunk of their chips when they are significantly behind.

There is a lot of risk in this play, if no one raises you can end up in a multiway pot out of postion having no idea what your opponants have. In order to make this play work you have to be willing to fold if you get a bad flop or there is a lot of action. With a bunch of players in the pot and you out of position, this is a very easy way to lose money.

Here are 2 examples.
$2/$4 blinds


#1) He shouldve known not to call a river bet that big with a flush on a paired board but theres no way he puts me on AA.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed)

BB ($509.4)
Hero ($405.3)
UTG+1 ($400)
UTG+2 ($400)
MP1 ($396)
MP2 ($662)
MP3 ($1230.25)
CO ($362.4)
Button ($282.9)
SB ($487.9)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with , . SB posts a blind of $2.
Hero calls $4, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls $4, 3 folds, CO calls $4, Button calls $4, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($24) , , (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets $15, Hero raises to $45, UTG+2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $30.

Turn: ($114) (2 players)
BB bets $50, Hero raises to $100, BB calls $50.

River: ($314) (2 players)
BB checks, Hero calls $256.30 (All-In), BB calls $256.30.

Final Pot: $826.60

Results in white below:
BB has 2c Kc (flush, ace high).
Hero has Ah As (full house, aces full of fives).
Outcome: Hero wins $826.60.


#2) If I had raised UTG with KK there, he wouldve called with his QQ, but he wouldve been much less willing to get all in. When you raise with QQ and get called, the 1st thing you are hoping for is no ace or king on the flop. When you get a flop like this one, you feel very good about your hand. Much better than he should have obviously.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed)

SB ($666.4)
BB ($424.9)
Hero ($461.8)
UTG+1 ($198)
MP1 ($553.5)
MP2 ($460.3)
MP3 ($0)
CO ($392.2)
Button ($507.2)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with , . SB posts a blind of $2.
Hero calls $4, 2 folds, MP2 raises to $15, 4 folds, Hero calls $11.

Flop: ($36) , , (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $25, Hero raises to $75, MP2 raises to $250, Hero calls $371.80 (All-In), MP2 calls $195.30 (All-In).

Turn: ($928.10) (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($928.10) (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $928.10

Results in white below:
Hero has Kc Ks (one pair, kings).
MP2 has Qs Qc (one pair, queens).
MP3 has (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $928.10.

Ice... 2 questions about your 2 hands...
1. If the board wouldn't have paired, but the turn was still a club, would you have been willing to throw away your aces if he bet it pretty big, fearing a flush?
2. How do you know he didn't have aces? Is it just basically a crap shoot, hoping he has the underpair..? Was there something in his betting that told you you have him beat?
Thanks... MVP