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How badly did I play this?

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How badly did I play this?

Postby kittles01 » Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:55 pm

Hey everyone, this is my first post on the forum but I have been a lurker for about a month. Had this hand the other night and really screwed it up. How should I have played it?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP1 ($67.45)
MP2 ($33.6)
MP3 ($29.1)
CO ($0)
Button ($65.55)
SB ($45.5)
BB ($154.21)
UTG ($36.04)
Hero ($108.94)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with [Kd], [Qh]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 4 folds, SB (poster) calls $1.75, BB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6) [Qd], [Qc], [Jd] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $6, SB folds, BB calls $6.

Turn: ($18) [4d] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $10, BB raises to $20, Hero calls $10.

River: ($58) [2s] (3 players)
BB bets $55, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $113
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Postby briachek » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:25 pm

any reads on the BB? My initial thoughts are against your preflop raise from EP with KQ off. It is often dominated, especially when you raise with it. However, being that the BB is the only caller, you aren't necessarily in big trouble.

Flop is fine but he called a pot bet on that board which has many possibilities, I would slow down.

Turn, I check behind.

River, I call a reasonable bet or value bet if checked to.
Brian [Js][9s]
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Postby kittles01 » Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:55 am

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Postby kennyg » Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:57 am

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Postby devilmollusk » Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:32 am

If he is loose-passive I am almost positive he made his flush draw. This sounds like one of those players who plays every suited holding, and calls his draws even against the odds. So I would say it is more than 2-1 you are beaten here. And I have to amen the call to lay fold this in EP. KQo is really not that great a hand.

One other thing to try on the flop though, depending on your table image and read on your opponent... overbet the pot. Judging by the fact that you raised these cards pre-flop I am gonna assume you are playing somewhat loose/aggressive. This is a great hand to get paid off with in that scenario. My feeling is you want to scare a draw off and isolate the guy holding either a dominated Q or a J. These are really the only hands that will call an overbet (and AQ and JJ, both very inlikely holdings), and I have found that people in these lower limits never put you on trips if you lead out, so I would not be at all surprised to be called by a J and re-raised all-in by a smaller Q. I would be willing to put all my chips in the pot right now, but certainly not after the turn.
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Postby MVPSPORTS » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:14 pm

I would agree w/ most of the posters that folding KQo is probably the best move in EP, and I like Briachek's check turn, even though I would've probably bet out like you did... But, when he check-raised the turn, and you knew he was loose-passive, MAJOR alarm bells should have been going off in your head...
I kinda disagree w/ devil that, even if he didn't hit his flush, AQ and JJ aren't unlikely holdings, especially if he is passive... If I was in the BB and UTG raised 4xBB, I would probably call w/ JJ and maybe AQs...
Either way, I think you're beat at the turn, and would be calling dead at the river...
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Postby devilmollusk » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:11 pm

Here is my thinking on why AQ and JJ are unlikely (but not impossible of course). Most players will re-raise with JJ on the button to an EP raise. Not all, but more than half I would say. I certainly would. So that is why I thought JJ was unlikely. Had he held AQ on that flop he would likely come over the top of your bet. Again these are not certainties, but just adjustments I make to my estimation of what the opponent might be holding.
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Postby MVPSPORTS » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:32 pm

Devil... I think I agree w/ your AQ, but I play a little more conservative and try to play JJ as cheap as possible... either way, when a loose-passive player check raises the turn, we all agree that he was beat on the river, right?
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Postby devilmollusk » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:41 pm

Reasonably good he was beaten on the river, however he could certainly have a smaller queen. The check min-raise is an odd sort of a play. I guess it is reasonable that a passive player might like his flush only a little. But still, I am not quite sure what to make of it. Either way I think it was probably a good lay down... though it is probably better to lay it down on the turn facing the re-raise. You are essentially taking 5:1 pot odds to hit 4 outs to make your boat or quad q's. That is assuming he makes a large bet on the river, which is almost guaranteed.
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Postby Danhdan » Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:45 pm

If the read on this player is a good one, shouldn't we count any diamond that falls as an out as well? He could be playing a weak queen or have a lower flush than the ace high. If the loose, passive player had a smaller flush, I think you have to make a crying call on the river if a fourth diamond comes down. Would anyone else make that call?

Don't play KQ in EP. And I also agree witht the rest...don't bet that turn. checking the turn and calling a bet on the river probably would have cost less than the action you took of betting the turn and calling a minimum raise without having a showdown.
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Postby smokiijas » Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:18 am

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