Did I play these hands as bad as humanly possible...

Hand #5413504-15410 at Amman (No Limit Hold'em)
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Started at 23/Apr/05 17:01:13

messier1111 is at seat 0 with $435.25.
AtrueRounder is at seat 1 with $58.60.
MVPSPORTS is at seat 2 with $196.
UAREMYATM is at seat 3 with $100.
jdog3329 is at seat 4 with $78.30.
valdez kid is at seat 5 with $76.55.
trotter_d is at seat 6 with $437.10.
keptfive is at seat 7 with $75.
Brighton Tech is at seat 8 with $222.80.
Audiodealer is at seat 9 with $311.25.
The button is at seat 1.

MVPSPORTS posts the small blind of $1.
UAREMYATM posts the big blind of $2.

messier1111: -- --
AtrueRounder: -- --
MVPSPORTS: Kc Kd
UAREMYATM: -- --
jdog3329: -- --
valdez kid: -- --
trotter_d: -- --
keptfive: -- --
Brighton Tech: -- --
Audiodealer: -- --

Pre-flop:

jdog3329 calls. valdez kid calls. trotter_d folds.
keptfive calls. Brighton Tech folds. Audiodealer
folds. messier1111 folds. AtrueRounder folds.
MVPSPORTS raises to $9. UAREMYATM folds. jdog3329
folds. valdez kid calls. keptfive calls.

Flop (board: Js Qs Ks): flop trips w/ a flush and straight draw...?
MVPSPORTS bets $31. valdez kid folds. keptfive goes
all-in for $66. MVPSPORTS calls.

Turn (board: Js Qs Ks 5d):

(no action in this round)


River (board: Js Qs Ks 5d 7s):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

keptfive shows 9h Th.
keptfive has 9h Th Js Qs Ks: straight, king high.
MVPSPORTS mucks cards.
(MVPSPORTS has Kc Kd.)


Hand #5413504-15410 Summary:

$3 is raked from a pot of $163.
keptfive wins $160 with straight, king high.

EXACTLY 3 MINUTES LATER...

Hand #5413504-15415 at Amman (No Limit Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 23/Apr/05 17:04:32

messier1111 is at seat 0 with $435.25.
AtrueRounder is at seat 1 with $59.25.
MVPSPORTS is at seat 2 with $121.
UAREMYATM is at seat 3 with $97.
jdog3329 is at seat 4 with $143.60.
valdez kid is at seat 5 with $69.25.
trotter_d is at seat 6 with $366.50.
keptfive is at seat 7 with $158.
Brighton Tech is at seat 8 with $222.80.
Audiodealer is at seat 9 with $311.25.
The button is at seat 6.

keptfive posts the small blind of $1.
Brighton Tech posts the big blind of $2.

messier1111: -- --
AtrueRounder: -- --
MVPSPORTS: As Ac
UAREMYATM: -- --
jdog3329: -- --
valdez kid: -- --
trotter_d: -- --
keptfive: -- --
Brighton Tech: -- --
Audiodealer: -- --

Pre-flop:

Audiodealer folds. messier1111 calls. AtrueRounder
folds. MVPSPORTS raises to $9. UAREMYATM calls.
jdog3329 folds. valdez kid folds. trotter_d calls.
keptfive folds. Brighton Tech folds. messier1111
folds.

Flop (board: 4d 5h 3h):

MVPSPORTS bets $32. UAREMYATM goes all-in for $88.
trotter_d folds. MVPSPORTS calls.

THAT FLOP CALL, LADIES AND GENTLEMAN, IS A PATENTED MOVE I LIKE TO CALL "NOT LEARNING FROM MY MISTAKES..."
Turn (board: 4d 5h 3h 5d):

(no action in this round)


River (board: 4d 5h 3h 5d 2d): Though I maybe had him once the 2 hit... nope...

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

UAREMYATM shows 5c 5s.
UAREMYATM has 5c 5s 4d 5h 5d: four fives.
MVPSPORTS mucks cards.
(MVPSPORTS has As Ac.)


Hand #5413504-15415 Summary:

$3 is raked from a pot of $208.
UAREMYATM wins $205 with four fives.

I'm pretty sure some of these calls were made on tilt... it's nice to get the best 2 starting hands and have them = -$200... And, as an added bonus, both these jackballs left the table as soon as they got my freakin money...

I dont see anything wrong with either hand.

Hand #1..You bet pot. When he raise all in , it was $35 to you with a #128 pot. Your getting almost 4-1 with top set. No way you can fold. Youre 2-1 to beat a flush or str8 and theres a good chance youre beting his lower set or 2 pair.


Hand #2. You bet pot. He raised all in. Its $56 to you with a $150 pot. Almost 3-1. he'll make that same play with TT, JJ, QQ or sometimes something like AQs flush draw. You have to call.

No way I fold either hand.

It's just VERY crushing getting AA and KK in the first 10 minutes, and turning them both into about -$200... I really do appreciate this site, and think I'm becoming a better poker player because of it... But I don't think I've learned the whole "losing a stack ain't so bad... just reload and fire out again... I still tend to take my losses pretty hard... Guess that's one of the things that separates me from some of the really good players around here...

It's worth noting that you can play lower-variance poker (either because you're not quite properly bankrolled, or because you haven't yet built up resistance to bad beats).

In this case, check folding hand 1, and folding to the raise on hand 2 are perfectly acceptable. I've played for periods of not calling all-ins without a positive read that the guy moving in is an idiot. You still make money, and have fun, just not as much...

You should of course be aware which mode you're in, and why.

Dont be to hard on yourself MVP, while I have learned not fear losing a buy in, that doesnt keep me from getting frusterated and angry sometimes when I do. I think for me this is something I will always be working on, I am really competative and I dont take well to losing. One of the great things about online poker, is that with easy it is to move tables, once you take a bad beat like this, you get up wait 15 min than sit down at another table. Yesterday I took two really bad beats on party and lost two buyins in a matter of 5 min. So I got up and decided to take a break. If you had asked me at the time if I was frusterated I would have said no, but looking back I really was. Lesson here, even if you don't think you need it, take a quick break.

In these hands you played just fine, you just ran into some bad luck, and I'm not saying you tilted a blew off your money because you definatly didnt, but if you had gotten up after the first bad beat and took a walk it would have lowered your frusteration level, so the second bad beat would have been easier to take. Either way crappy situation.

I know this doesn't really help ease the pain, but this is exactly why you call raises with suited connectors and small pp's. Unfortunately when you are the one getting your big hands cracked by these draws it sucks. But the lesson here is really the value in being on the other end of these.

The only thing you might want to look at is that in both these hands you are out of position. If you limp these big hands it is easier (though by no means easy) to get away from them with horrific flops. However there is really nothing wrong with the way you played either of these, and more often than not you make money with these plays.

None taken

But how -EV is check-folding every multi-way flop with both a made high straight and a flush?

If you want to reduce your variance at the cost of EV, then that wouldn't be a horrible place to start...

But you have top set. Even if the guy has the made straight or made flush , youre still getting more than correct odds to chase the boat.

That alone makes the call correct, but add in the percentage of times that the guy has 2 pair, a smaller set, or a pair and draw, and its a must call situation.

Aero... no reads on the players.. I was 3 tabling, and this jackball took me offguard... I definitely put a note on both of them that I want to take their stacks, or eat their children... Especially because both of them ran away as soon as they cashed in on me... I'm pretty sure I've seen URMYATM before (the guy w/ the quads), and if I remember, he sucks...

Devil, I agree completely w/ this... There's NO WAY I put either of these guys on these hands... I was afraid of the flush on the first hand more than the straight... But yes, this is definitely the reason to get into hands w/ suited connectors and small pairs... I just wish it worked as well for me as it did for them...
MVP

If you're playing above your bankroll -- whether actually or psychologically -- then this kind of crap hurts a lot. I know because it happens to me and I get pissed -- but much more pissed at the $50 games than at the $20 games. (For me, my AA re-raises get called by junk like K3o and then they hit a K and a 3 on the flop.)

Anyway. You have to have to have to call in hand #1. Ice is right. No doubt at all.

Hand #2 you can lay it down. Maybe you're ahead, but probably not. I hate having AA unimproved against a guy moving all-in on the flop. I haven't folded it yet, but almost every single time I have wished that I did.

Put it this way: set over set is rare, but set over overpair is common as hell.

It may or may not be a +EV play to call hand #2, but it's definitely a variance-increasing play. And increased variance can hurt a lot.

So if you're in a place where, psychologically, you are having a hard time with variance, resolve ahead of time to fold these. "I, MVPSports, hereby vow that -- for today only -- I will lay down my AA or KK unimproved against an all-in raise on the flop."

Another option is to get some dice and have them next to you while you play. Sounds stupid, I know, but maybe it's worth trying. If you're in a situation like this, roll the dice, and only call if you roll a 7 or higher (or whatever you choose). That way nobody can make a move on you "knowing" that you'll fold, but you'll cut down your variance a bit. Plus, when they do have the set and you call, you can blame the dice.

I see your point Kent, to lower variance, but I don't think I'm playing above my BR... I was before, steady at 1/2, occasionally at 2/4... now I stick pretty much to 2-4 tabling .5/1 untill I have it mastered... My question is, on the second hand, I have to bet ~$50 to win ~$150... are my odds worse than 2-1 that he hit something and just isn't overplaying another big pair? I mean, if the flop would have been something closer to the first, K,Q,J, I may have been a little more likely to fold, since I would've read him for an overpair also and may have tripped... I just didn't see him calling a 4.5xBB raise w/ 2,3 or 7,8... I really thought he was on a nut draw...

I'm not playing above my BR at the $50 games, either -- except psychologically. Bad beats and getting big pairs cracked hurts me way too much, in the brain much more than in the bankroll. That's why I'm considering these variance-reducing plans.