I have gotten myself in trouble many times and want some feedback.

If I have a big PP AA, KK, QQ and maybe JJ I always raise from any position if no one else has yet raised. My goal is to get 1 or maybe 2 callers at most or just take it down pre flop.

Where I get into trouble is when I get a couple callers and a seemingly safe flop, bet out pot and get called by one or more.

For example:

KK in early position bet 4X BB and get 2 callers who have position on me.

flop comes say Q T 5 rainbow.

I have an over pair and bet the pot.

If I get called I don't know if someone is slow playing a set (bad for me), making a call without odds for a straight draw or 2 pair (good for me), or maybe thinking I am on a continuation bet with JJ or AK and defending a hand like KQ or AQ. A raise here by someone with position will make me wonder about a flopped set or a sneaky player with AA now woried about me on QQ.

I can't bring myself to check the turn unless it is a terrible card for me like an A and even then It feels very weak tight after my pre flop and flop aggression. I think a check on the turn just sets me up for somone to steal my pot.

If I bet the turn with a pot sized bet I am usually creating an all in situation for myself or my opponent. Many times I am still wandering if I am ahead by this time and I should have been able to figure that out before I get my whole stack committed.

I win a fair amount of these hands but am losing many to 2 pair, sets and other draw outs that are not the obvious flop draws like runner runner straights.

Just for refernce I am playing the $50 NL game on party and dabbling with the $100 game and I still see many TPTK hands showing down and winning pots at this level.

I'd appreciate any discussion on the topic.

BK

Why don't you mix up your play? A's or K's preflop in EP why not limp reraise? If your goal is to take it down preflop or with 1 or 2 callers, this will help to define what you are up against. Plus to my knowledge most don't respect a UTG preflop raise; also limp reraising is +ev, or at least i get more from my monsters with it.

With your example of a QT5 flop, its best usually to check behind him on the turn.

Not many people call raises with KJ and thats the only drawing hand. If he has KQ, he has 2 outs and you can afford to give him a free card. If he has AQ, same thing but 5 outs.

When you get called and there are no real draws, its best to check. Just remember that you almost always get bet into at the river when you check the turn so you need to call that bet most of the time.

You dont need to bet every street and try to double up with AA and KK. Keep the pot medium sized. Save you double up hands for your straights and sets and things like that.

Hmmm... Well, this is a rare occasion where I actually disagree with ice. I think I'd go with a half-pot + bet on the turn most of the time. I think you're generally up against AQ or KQ here, who are also in a bit of a pickle--being this far in, are they going to lay it down now?

I think a decent turn bet gets more money in when you win and may also cut your losses when you lose. Set should now raise, and you can indeed consider laying down, depending on opponent.

I do agree with ice that you really don't want to be playing for your whole stack with your overpair now that 4 cards are showing. So, at that point, I'm no longer real excited about my hand, but I do think it's still strong enough to warrant a healthy turn bet.

I had a fairly sweet one like that a few days ago when AJ called my QQ raise and got eaten away on a moderately big pot with a J-high flop.

$1/$2 NL. Hero raises to $8 with KK He gets 2 callers. Pot is $25. QT5 flop.
Callers check to Hero who bets $20 and gets a call.
Pot is $65

Turn is a 2 and hero checks behind villian

1. Villian has KQ. Villian now bets about $40 at the river which Hero calls and wins
2. Villiain has 55. Villain now bets about $40 at the river which hero calls and loses


Turn is a 2 and hero bets $40.

1. Villian has KQ and calls. Hero doesnt want to play for his stack so he checks behind on the river. Same result as checking the turn and calling the river.
2. Villiain has 55 and now raises the $40 bet to $100. Hero may not be able to fold his beautiful looking KK and lose his stack by either calling this and the river or by pushing in.

Hero might fold to the check raise. Oops....Villian check raised with KQ and Hero didnt get to see the river because he folded the best hand.

Unless youre playing a fool who will call the turn AND another river bet with KQ, then checking the turn is best most of the time.

First, to ice: Calling the turn bet is what these guys keep doing, amazingly enough. I don't know, anyone imo who is playing KQ to a real raise (i.e., a raise coming from a serious player) is a fool to begin with, but those are the guys making the donations...

I honestly can't see anyone that stupid coming out with a checkraise, and, if he does (probably here a bit of a difference now that I'm going B&M--although I'm guessing at your stakes, you have enough regulars where you can usually get a pretty fair grip on the serious opposition, but the reading aspect really is just way better at B&M), I'll usually already have him pegged as a bluffy idiot.

I'll tell you what I'm also often getting here: J9s still chasing the blasted straight, and I really don't want to give a freecard. On my only set vs. big pair hand (the AA vs. setted 22), I was out of position, so I don't know whether I would have gotten a check on the flop or not--probably so, actually, the way these guys like to play. But once the pot is huge, the set does typically come out--at least in this game and against me (probably because I create unusually large flop pots, which they're then ready to bid for rather than slowplay).

I see your point, but I think a lot depends on what you're likely to be up against.

To rdale: I agree fully. I think you need something like 50% raises or better for the limp-re-raise to be attractive. If the table is running more loose-passive with a lot of limping, you'll get your callers anyway, and you don't really want to be playing your AA into a field of 6 limpers with virtually random cards.

And I'm saying that as a fan of the limp-re-raise under appropriate circumstances... sometimes, my table is also just in raising mood, so it's fantastic if you can limp and then get a $25 raise in front of you with 3 callers (then you move in or just bet half your stack, or something like that). But you need to have a handle on the current mood of the table.