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More on big pairs

Postby Aisthesis » Mon May 23, 2005 3:47 am

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Postby iceman5 » Mon May 23, 2005 10:24 am

I think this is a mistake. Youre out of position and need to make a large reraise and get as much money in the pot preflop as you can.

Youre much better off calling that raise in the BB with a suited connector that can win a big pot with a str8 or flush (even if he hits a set if he does have a small pair).

If he has a small pair, hes not going to put anymore money in the pot if he misses the set. By just calling, youre giving him a free shot to hit it. (free because his $15 is already in). Make him pay preflop. If he hits it, hes going to stack you, but if you raise enough, you will make money in the long run if he calls the reraise with incorrect odds.
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Postby Aisthesis » Mon May 23, 2005 3:57 pm

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Postby eliteprodigy » Mon May 23, 2005 8:12 pm

Wow I'm confused as hell. I see numbers with multiply signs and even stars in the mix lol
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Postby Zarathustra » Tue May 24, 2005 12:26 pm

Ditto what Iceman said. I hate to play a big pair out of position against a preflop raiser. You won't know when you're beat because he doesn't know what you have. This is a strange concept, but it is sometimes in your best interest to show your strength so you know that your opponent knows your strong, then you can better play the hand out. Also, I wouldn't worry about trying to collect 10 PTBB every time you have AA. A lot of times you'll show strength and win only 1/2 of this as the raiser and limpers will fold, but every now and again that raiser will have AK or KK or QQ or sometimes worse and pop you back or refuse to let go, then you'll make a helluva lot more than 10 PTBB on average. I try to keep in mind that aces make their money by running into other big hands and lose their money by letting weaker hands cheaply crack them. If I take the blinds and limps a number of times, that's fine -- eventually they'll run into a big hand and I'll be paid off.
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Postby Aisthesis » Tue May 24, 2005 2:23 pm

Yeah, you guys are probably right (oh, and Z, I'm always talking real big blinds, not PTBB, which would make the win rates Utopian).

Sample from last night (where everything was going wrong): Moderately loose raiser in MP (this guy isn't bad, but I'm increasing coming to think he's a tournament player--raises AQ consistently and also a lot of smallish pairs, 99 and up consistently, which at this game, I have found too dangerous, since everyone calls raises with crap all the time) raises to $20. I'm sitting on the button with KK and re-raise to $60.

Since we know each other fairly well now and he respects my raises, I think he'll probably fold, but in fact, he calls--with AQ, as he told me later, and I believe him here. Flop comes Arags with 2 hearts, and my KK is black. He checks, I check. Turn is a 3rd heart, he bets $40 ($130 pot), and I fold.

Objectively, I don't think there was much to worry about on the made flush, and had I had Kh, I might have raised at that point. I don't think this guy would have called my re-raise with less than a big ace or QQ anyway. And he said he would have folded PF had he known I had KK. Anyhow, while this hand was pretty typical of the way things were going last night, I think it actually demonstrates the value of the raise. I did get a $120 pot going with a hand that's better than a 75% favorite to take down the flop.

I was originally rather worried that he might have bluffed me out of it with QQ including Qh, but, I don't know, I really think it was a pretty decent laydown... The bluff with anything except an A was also quite risky, since I have definitely been know to slowplay top set (AA) on something like that.
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