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2 $5/$10 hands

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2 $5/$10 hands

Postby iceman5 » Fri May 27, 2005 10:20 am

Being very pissed about some horrendous beats the past 3 days, I decided to jump into the $5/$10 NL game.

Dont worry, Im not "doubling up to catch up". I easily have the roll for the game and Im pretty sure I have the skill also. I just dont normally play it for reasons Ive stated in the past.

So here are 2 hands.....

These are 2 different tables and I only played for about 30 mins total so I have no real reads.

#1) I have [Ad][9s] inthe BB. MP limps and SB completes.
Pot is $30 The flop comes [9h][7h][3d]. SB bets $30, I min raise to $60, MP folds and SB calls.
Pot is $150. Turn is the [7c]. SB bets$100 and I raise to $300. Thoughts?


#2) UTG raises to $35, I m next and call with [Ah][Kd]. We're heads up.
Pot is $85. Flop comes [Ac][9c][Js]. UTG bets $30. I min raise to $60. He reraises to $225. I move in for a total of $1030. He has me covered.

Who said I was weak tight? Thoughts?

To any decent $5/$10 player, it should look like I have a set in both hands.
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Postby palman » Fri May 27, 2005 10:53 am

Maybe in the 2nd scenario, but in the first scenario saying that you are representing a set simply because you min-raised is a little crazy. If everytime someone min-raised they had a set, min-raising would be the most profitable bet in poker.

You're in the BB in the first scenario, your min-raise could mean a variety of hands here. The fact alone that you are in the BB makes your opponnent not really fear you have a monster (whether justified or not). Given that, what does your min-raise on the flop accomplish?

The raise isn't large enough to expect him to fold, simply because you were just in the BB, so he's going to call regardless and 2/3 of the deck is a scare card for you on the turn. Whenever that much of the deck is a scare card, and you can't expect him to fold, your raise has to be larger than a min-raise. I don't have a problem with your bet on the turn, he can't bluff you here, and he might even just call and then check trips.

In the 2nd hand, are you going all in for the hopes of driving out another AK? You aren't screaming set enough for 2 pair to muck here. Sure there are some players that might muck 2 pair, but there are many more than won't. Seeing as how you don't have reads on players, you can't assume 2 pair folds, he could easily have a set, and the only thing you accomplish here is getting AK to maybe drop. If you're putting him on AQ then you're better off milking him for value than driving him out.
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Postby iceman5 » Fri May 27, 2005 11:18 am

The fact that I ONLY min raised the flop in hand #1 indicates that I dont want him to fold because I have a monster.

Alomst every time I see someone min raise the flop, they have a set, made str8 or some other 2 pair type hand. I min raised that flop so I could take the pot at the turn. I knew he wasnt going to fold the flop unless he had bottom pair and was just messing around.

Ive started making a note of what a guy has when he min raise a flop or turn...I can guarantee you that if you folded EVERY time you got min raised (and YOU didnt have a monster or odds to draw), it would be +EV.
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Postby eliteprodigy » Fri May 27, 2005 11:36 am

Hand 1 fine. I see no problem with that, odds are he has a 9 with a weaker kicker.

Hand 2 I am a little uneasy about though. You've min-raised showing a lot of strength and he comes over the top with his re-raise. The hands I see you beating here that he would raise UTG with are AQ and split with AK but if he has these hands you have him dominated and moving in would just chase him out of the pot. If he has AJ your gonna see a call, JJ, 99, J9s if he's tricky. He isn't drawing because if he was he would just call your minimum raise unless he has a monster-draw like an OE ST8 flush draw. My gut in hand 2 says he has AK and it would-be a split if he stayed in which I doubt he did. I guess it seems like an okay line, im just a little uneasy about moving in with just top pair

Sidenote: At the bigger games like 5/10 a minimum raise doesn't mean a monster. The players are smarter and if they see a good player use this, they see right through it, might be a good play to use when you really do have a set. Most suspect at that level people are good enough. If anything they would view a min-raise as a set up attempt to see a free turn card
Last edited by eliteprodigy on Fri May 27, 2005 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby palman » Fri May 27, 2005 11:39 am

Ice- I know you're TRYING to represent a monster, I'm just questioning whether this was the flop to do it because 1) you were in the BB 2) he doesn't have a read on you 3) he isn't going to fold on the flop for 30 more and 4) 2/3 of the deck is a scare card.
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Postby Bob314 » Fri May 27, 2005 11:56 am

3) your play looks really fishy when you do that so he might give you less credit, and 4) Your opponent might not understand the "min-raise means monster" 'rule' that you've come up with.

I think that going all in with your A-K was a very poor move. If you are trying to represent a monster your opponent obviously isn't buying it because he came back over the top.

I also don't know why you feel the need to play TPTK to make it look like it is a set--why don't you play it for what it is? I like raising to $90 much better here. Again, you are trying to represent a monster and your opponent again doesn't believe you--he leads back into you on the turn.
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Postby iceman5 » Fri May 27, 2005 11:57 am

But 2/3 of the deck is a scare card for him also. Im betting the turn no matter what hits.

As a matter of fact, Im raising the turn no matter what hits.
Are you saying that you wouldve raised the flop more to get him to fold?


Hand#2...Hands like these always confuse me. I always hear that a big raise (all in) will only accomplish getting worse hands to fold and better hands to call. That may well be (except for getting AK to fold).

1) I cant just call his flop bet hoping that he has AQ and that he'll keep betting into me. Its too small and he may be drawing.
2) I cant just call his reraise either. If I call,he is not going to check the turn to me no matter what he has. I cant remember that last time a guy bet the flop, got raised..then reraised and then checked the turn. We're both going to be pot committed and half the deck is a scare card. Any club and any card above an 8 is going to either beat me or kill my action. I prefer to make my decision right now.
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Postby eliteprodigy » Fri May 27, 2005 1:20 pm

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Postby Aisthesis » Fri May 27, 2005 1:49 pm

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Postby iceman5 » Fri May 27, 2005 2:03 pm

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Postby poker2006 » Fri May 27, 2005 2:57 pm

-- andyG [Ah]
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Postby kennyg » Fri May 27, 2005 3:59 pm

I like both plays...though...I don't like min. raises. The problem is you set yourself up for diaster if they call and some kind of scare card hits. At the point you really don't know what they hold.

hand 1. I really love the turn raise. Nice play. Sets yourself up to be able to check the river, take the pot there, and give your hand value if somehow you're winning and he calls.

Hand #2... Only AJ, AA, JJ, and 99 should call you here, if it's a good opponent.. I would fold AK...but some players might call with it. Agreed that's it's not a good idea to milk this pot...too many scare cards are waiting to come out. Best case scenario is that UTG is a station and calls with something like AQ
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Postby droqqa » Fri May 27, 2005 8:15 pm

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Postby Stapher » Fri May 27, 2005 10:08 pm

If you don't fold the best hand every once in awhile, you're probably not playing your best poker
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Re: 2 $5/$10 hands

Postby rdale » Fri May 27, 2005 11:36 pm

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