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Flopped bottom two vs a min raise

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Flopped bottom two vs a min raise

Postby briachek » Thu May 26, 2005 11:20 am

Not much of a read on the opponent but he hasn't gone out of line yet.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (10 handed)

UTG+1 ($60.3)
UTG+2 ($38.65)
MP1 ($52.7)
MP2 ($46.65)
MP3 ($49)
CO ($47.75)
Button ($49.85)
Hero ($49.65)
BB ($12.55)
UTG ($137.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with [8c], [7c].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $1, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1, 1 fold, CO calls $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.75, 1 fold.

Flop: ($4.50) [8h], [Ad], [7d] (4 players)
Hero bets $4, UTG+2 raises to $8, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($20.50) [2h] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets $10, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $30.50

Results in white below:
No showdown. UTG+2 wins $30.50.


Good laydown? He was the preflop min raiser so its hard to put him on A8 or A7 so unless he's min raising with 88 or 77, he either has AK, AQ or AA. What do you do here? If I was folding on the turn, I should have folded the flop but wanted to see if he would follow through. Stupid, I know. How do you play this?
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Postby t-bone » Thu May 26, 2005 11:30 pm

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Postby briachek » Fri May 27, 2005 12:27 am

Its the min raise that got me thinking danger.
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Postby MVPSPORTS » Fri May 27, 2005 12:46 am

I agree w/ ice somewhat about the minraise=monster... but he fails to add in the "idiot factor"... bozos that don't know my ass from their elbow when it comes to betting patterns, and just push the button cause it's easy... I've seen geniuses minraise around w/ 5 people playing like 5 times, like they don't know it's a NL game... $2, call, call call... $4 call call call $6 call call...
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Postby Rhound50 » Fri May 27, 2005 3:57 am

This is always a tough call, I do agree that min raise == monster but in these $50 games some players think their AK or AQ is a monster in the is case. Either way I dont like teh call of the minraise. Either fold or reraise, you only have 4 cards to improve and there are very few safe cards that you can see on the turn since you have a small 2 pair.
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Postby briachek » Fri May 27, 2005 10:15 am

Brian [Js][9s]
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Postby MVPSPORTS » Fri May 27, 2005 12:06 pm

I agree that you're only really behind AA there... Most likely he has AK-A10, or is trying to buy the pot w/ Ks, Qs, or even Js... I think if you push, 9 out of 10 times you're either ahead or he'll fold...
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Postby iceman5 » Fri May 27, 2005 12:10 pm

Ive said a million times that if you fold to every min flop or turn raise (when you dont have a monster yourself or odds to draw), you would be better off.

This isnt one of those times. With this action, I would call your hand a monster and I would check raise the turn.
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Postby MVPSPORTS » Fri May 27, 2005 12:20 pm

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Postby Suhleafs » Fri May 27, 2005 3:49 pm

Sorry bria, But you've got to be ahead here. Is he the kind of player that would only raise the minimum preflop with aces? I don't know that, but there are far too many hands that he could have that you're ahead of, like AJ-AK. You called a raise with a suited connector and hit your hand. I don't think you could have asked for much more, other than flopping trips or flopping a straight flush draw, or something to that nature. I do like your lead out on the flop because it will induce a raise from the hands mentioned above. But why not follow through and either check-raise the turn, or make a big re-raise right there on the flop? If he folded right on the flop to a raise to say 30, then your 1 dollar preflop call would have netted you 8x that from his bets on the flop, not a bad return for a suited connector. However, I don't think I would have just called the flop then check-raised the turn because he could easily check behind you for a free card if he's on a flush draw.
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Postby briachek » Fri May 27, 2005 3:52 pm

everything makes sense and I screwed up. I know I probably did so that's why I post. Ice's post about min raising has just stuck too much in my mind and I am seeing monsters under the bed every time it happens. I'm working on it.
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Postby iceman5 » Fri May 27, 2005 4:06 pm

Honestly its been so long since I played $50NL or $100NL that I cant remember if I saw so many minimum raises back then.

The main thing about this hand is that you want to lead out just like you would a set. You want to get raised so you can reraise or bump it up on the turn. You cant chicken out after the scenario plays out according to plan.
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