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I forgot to BET THE POT!!!

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I forgot to BET THE POT!!!

Postby kidluckee » Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:05 pm

File this hand under "How Not to Play NL" or "I'm Feeling Fishy". This was horribly played on every street - by me! The preflop raiser was a bit of a maniac. I thought the flop was okay. But like an idiot, I only bet 1/2 trying to see what the maniac would do. I loved the turn, but still underbet the pot, hoping maniac had a hand he'd raise with. Of course I hated the river, but figured I had to call as this guy was going to push what's left all-in here with anything. I really didn't have him on an open-ender at all but my weak bets burned me. (Of course, just folding preflop would have been another option.)

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (8 handed)

SB ($217.00)
BB ($128.50)
UTG ($230.75)
UTG+1 ($307.75)
Hero ($152.25)
MP2 =#A500AF(maniac)/ ($87.00)
CO ($181.00)
Button ($350.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with [Jc], [Ks]. SB posts a blind of $1. BB posts a blind of $2. UTG calls $2, 1 fold, Hero calls $2, MP2 raises to $8.5, 4 folds, UTG calls $6.50, Hero calls $6.50.

Flop: ($28.50) [Tc], [6h], [Kh] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $13, maniac calls $13, UTG folds.

Turn: ($54.50) [Jd] (2 players)
Hero bets $28, maniac calls $28.

River: ($110.50) [Ad] (2 players)
Hero checks, maniac bets $37.5, Hero calls $37.50.

Final Pot: $185.50

Results in white below:
Hero has Jc Ks (two pair, kings and jacks).
maniac has Js Qc (straight, ace high).
Outcome: maniac wins $185.50.


MORAL OF THE STORY: BET THE POT!
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Postby briachek » Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:26 pm

In this case, betting the pot might not have mattered because if he is a maniac, he's not letting go of his OE straight draw. However, in the long run, you are right that betting the pot will gain you more money as they are drawing without proper odds.

Second, IMO, it doesn't matter if he is a maniac or not, I fold that hand to his preflop raise. I can find a better spot to take on a maniac.

On the river, you were getting more than 4:1 on your money so I guess its not that bad if he could be put on A9 or JT but you aren't beating much here.
Brian [Js][9s]
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Re: I forgot to BET THE POT!!!

Postby MVPSPORTS » Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:57 pm

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Re: I forgot to BET THE POT!!!

Postby kidluckee » Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:43 pm

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Postby MVPSPORTS » Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:51 pm

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Postby kidluckee » Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:00 pm

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Postby kennyg » Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:18 pm

I would have checkraised the flop. You gotta figure a maniac will bet any flop there.

Actually...I change my mind...I would have folded preflop before there was any action at all.

KJ is garbage....just like KQ...in the longrun you will lose money playing these hands in early positions. IMO...id rather thave something like 56o then that KJ there. At least then you know when you hit a big flop you're not gonna be out kicked and the like.
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Postby kidluckee » Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:26 pm

This hand has turned out more interesting than I first thought.

Agreed. KJo is usually garbage. But if a table is playing tight waiting to pick off a maniac, I'll play it.

You are right that he would bet the flop. But if I check-raise and he comes back, he's shortstacked enough that I have to call. So it might cost me the rest of his stack(just $87 to start) to see if he liked the flop. I'd rather lead into him. He knows I'm not playing too many hands and have shown winners. If he has nothing, he'll go away. If he has a worse hand but something, he's apt to call me down. So, a flopp bet gives me more info than a CR, and keeps me from getting pot-committed right off the bat.
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Postby poker2006 » Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:20 pm

To a maniac or to any other player, check-raise sends the strongest message that you have a monster, so if there's a play that gets him out of the hand that will. Check-raise him all in if you think you have the best hand on the flop. Weak bets will not do anything good for you there.

When there's a maniac at the table I agree it's tempting to loosen up to take his money, but this can be dangerous and you have to accept larger variance than if you want for a good hand and get him.
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