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Why am I such an IDIOT??!!

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Why am I such an IDIOT??!!

Postby SPhilly » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:59 am

First of all I would like to say helo to everyone at BTP. I stumbled across this forum recently and I think it is great. Very helpful and insightful.

Anyway the reason for my post is my incredible ability to go against my better judgement especially in a big pot. Sorry I don't have the actual hand history but it really is ultimately irrelevant. Dealt AA middle position, UTG (solid TAA) min-raises I reraise 6Xs BB. Only UTG calls. Now I'm thinking PP since he is a solid player and he must know I have big PP most likely AA or KK. Flop comes all low 9 4 6. UTG checks and I make Pot-bet. Now I'm thinking if he comes over the top I'm likely going to dump my hand. Not only does he come over the to but he bets 4X the current pot. Great easy fold right...Wrong I talk myself into pushing telling myself he is good enough to try a move on me here. What idiotic thinking on my part. I didn't even have to see the cards to know he had a set. UTG 44.
I know there really isn't much of a question here but I really needed to berate myself in public for such an idiotic move. Was having a great session up to this point and just pissed away 2 good sessions worth of profit on one hand. If I am supposed to be improving my game how can I make foolish mistakes like this??
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Postby Twelver » Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:14 am

First,
Welcome to the forum. I have not been a memeber here long myself, but I have followed the forum for about 4 months now and the insight is just incredible.

I try my best to not get involved in pots with very good (TAA) players without a very solid hand. Obvioulsy you had that, so nothing wrong done there. I question how solid of a player he is callig a 6XBB reraise UTG. But getting back to the hand, one of the hardest things I have tried to teach myself is laying down AA when I know I am beat. His huge raise does look like he could be buying the pot from you, but first instincs are rarely ever wrong. Trust your gut and learn to lay down monster's when you know your beat.
Just my 2 cents.

-twelver
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Postby Tiburon » Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:14 am

Truthfully, I don't think it's all that bad a play. A couple questions:

1) What level?
2) What autorate rules are you using to show UTG as a TAA?

First of all, only a nutcase min-raises UTG with 44, then cold calls a bigger raise. Small pairs are a set-it-or-forget-it proposition, usually. He hit his set, then overbet the pot (which is usually the sign of weakness, he doesn't want you to call). He re-raised you, then called an all-in with third set.

He's not TAA. He's borderline crazy. Tag him into your buddy list for sure.

He cold-called a raise with a weak hand, got lucky, hit his set, then you didn't improve. You played it fine. He just got a bit lucky.
"...Every time you cold call, god kills a puppy."
--JJSCOTT2

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Postby SPhilly » Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:26 am

Interesting analysis. Because I actually thought it was a good play on his part. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit but since he was at my table for awhile he saw how I played. Therefore when I make that raise he has a good I dea of my hand range. At that point he know if he hits his set he can take me out. I felt that way right from the start but I was giving him credit for the huge raraise which made me feel he was trying to shut me out and thus called when I should have folded.
I was using the autorate rules from here before the latest update. The level was $25 no-limit. Also I think when I looked at his PFA it was >8 which also helped me lean toward the push but I should have trusted my feel instead of getting convinced by the numbers.

Thanks
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Postby allstar » Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:45 am

Guys - before tagging his opponent as 'crazy', lets remember that the original poster did not mention stack sizes at all. If they are at a NL50 (my current level), and they both had doubled up once, with stacks of $100 or so, then the original posters (OP) play, in my humble opinion, is fine.

If he was smart enough to put the OP on a big pair, he knew that if he hit his set (7.5:1), he would likely stack the guy. In this case, his implied odds on the original call were through the roof. I'd like to hear y'all's opinion on this concept, because sets are a huge moneymaker for me. As Ice has said, "if you sat back and just waited for sets all day, you'd make money". In my opinion alot of that money would come from hitting a set against a guy that cant fold an overpair.

Hope y'all are running well.
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Postby kidluckee » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:07 am

kidluckee
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Postby JJSCOTT2 » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:47 am

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Postby T-Rod » Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:37 am

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Postby Tiburon » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:19 am

"...Every time you cold call, god kills a puppy."
--JJSCOTT2

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Postby iceman5 » Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:37 pm

I'll assume that both players had $25 stacks.

UTG min raises. This is almost always a mid to low pair or Axs. Some people do it with AA and KK and you need to make notes of those people.

So UTG raised to .50. No matter what UTG has, you need to reraise, but a reraise to $1.50 is not enough. He is absolutely correct to call another $1 when you have $23.50 behind.

You need to raise to about $2.50. He might still call and the result will be the same, but the 7 times he misses his set, you win enough to cover the times he does. Every now and then, you will both hit a set and you will stack him.

Now on to the flop play. The pot is $3.50 or so. You bet $3.50. When you say he bet 4x the current pot, that could mean 4X the $3.50....or 4X the $7 pot after you bet $3.50 into it. If the latter is true, then he started with more than $25. Either way, it is very possible he would make this same play with KK or QQ which is why you need notes on what people min raise preflop with.

If you reraise much more preflop, then you can avoid some of this. The all in call wasnt idiotic at all. I might or might not call depending on the situation.
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Postby Tiburon » Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:24 am

Totally agree with ice. Especially now that my donkey-inspired drivel session of Friday is behind me.

An open raise to 6BB is usually OK at lower limits, but a re-raise has to be a real exclamation point, especially to a min-raise. You have to make an initial raiser really pay to play at that point, especially when you have AA. I'm gulity of this as well at times, but when you have AA, remember, the goal is to get all your money in when you have the best hand. If he's going to draw on you, make him pay for it.
"...Every time you cold call, god kills a puppy."
--JJSCOTT2

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