by PZ » Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:11 am
Alright ima throw my $0.02 into the whole thing. Just cause.
Former fundamentalist Christian (until approximately 10 years ago when I kind of "unindoctrinated" myself) ... currently not particularly a believer in any specific "personality-based" God(s) ... but definitely there's a shitload of energy out there in one form or another, and also hundreds of other mathematically proven dimensions that we can't perceive otherwise. Obv. there's a little more going on than anyone or any group has ever been able to either a) figure out , or b) have revealed to them in some way.
The Bible: At least the Old Testament is not as "edited" as is commonly held. The NT I couldn't say for sure, but some looking into exactly how the Jewish community kept the older book sacred and the same over the centuries is very interesting. Meticulous. While I'm not certain exactly when the current version of the book (and by that I just mean the collection of separate texts) was collated into one unit ... but I do believe it was only a few hundred years ago (or so.) If God was breathing his word into a text, he sure took his time about it. Now with that being said, the book IS full of the writings of devoted men who spent much of their life "experiencing" God etc. At the very least we can accept that even if it's not factual ... there's probably some depth in there and certainly things to be gained from understanding the ideas and concepts. Much like reading various philosophies, there IS value even if it's disagreed with. At the very least "Love your neighbour" isn't such a bad idea.
I saw A = A somewhere earlier in this thread. Yup. (Atlas Shrugged ... objectivism ... they're making a movie out of it soon with Angelina Jolie ... hope they don't fvck it up.)
Christians: There are 2 categories IMO. The type that don't get it and the type that do. I think T-Rod gets it. I know when I was a Christian I didn't. I was far too worried about everyone elses soul, and the state of the world ... blah blah blah ... rather than looking into myself to observe and know my own "soul/spirit" (don't shoot me ... it's just a descriptive word.) I feel much better now that I'm NOT a Christian, but again ... I was on the whacko side. Much fear in the fundamentalists I see hmm yes? But really ... collectively I think they get ridiculed a bit too much. Even the crazy ones are mostly harmless if not a little comical in the sincerity of their own delusions. Something I can pretty much guarantee though ... inside every loony fundamentalist lies a tortured soul. The ones that aren't loony are generally very nice people and I admire the introspection they put into their own state of being. Choosing to be "good" does show the working of a conscientous and evolved mind (speaking about the individual, not god) ... even if the premise why is a little faulty.
Having been exposed to this type of thing for close to 30 years now ... it's a bit eye-rolling sometimes to watch the same arguments get ping-ponged back and forth ... over and over ... with no resolution (as one is not possible.) Does anyone want to bet $20 that come Christmastime ... a whole bunch of folk are gonna raise a stink about Santa and the meaning of Christmas ... etc. Or that the Creationist movement (sorry ... Intelligent Design these days ... same 5-decade old faulty arguments ... different name) won't continue to somehow try to get equal time with ... you know ... real education? It's just all a little old and tired now.
I spend no time at all anymore wondering about who God is ... what he's made of ... where the universe came from. These things are completely irrelevant to my life, and also I recognize that of the 6 billion of us kicking around ... I'm in the company of 5,999,999,999 others who don't know either. If God was really thought it was that important ... I'm sure He would have let me know in a more clear-cut way than what we've got. I DO (like T-Rod) spend a lot of time observing my inner self ... trying to do the "right" thing when I don't feel like it ... living by a higher standard of principles than by animal-instinct and emotional reactions. I do experience faith, hope, and love ... and I suffer when those are absent. Overall I would just suggest that as amazingly complex as we know this universe to be ... it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to understand that even IF the Bible were somehow the infallible word of god ... it STILL doesn't provide all the answers, and it's really just kid's milk compared to the real meat and potatoes.
IMO ... the people that get really worked up about one side or the other truly miss the point. Why all the emotion? What's going on inside that's causing such a strong reaction? Maybe finding out would be good. BTW ... this thread has been thankfully absent of that. This surprises me in 2 ways. 1) A reasonable conversation about God on the internet?!! wtf?! ... 2) A reasonable conversation on BTP Community??!! wtf??!
That's all I've got.
Last edited by
PZ on Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.