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QQ in BB with a raise and re-raise to me

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QQ in BB with a raise and re-raise to me

Postby Stoneburg » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:39 pm

Table is pretty loose as usual. I've got just over a buy-in, $23, EP is the big stack and MP has me just covered. EP is loose and seems somewhat aggro, MP is pretty new to the table and hasn't done anything that I have noticed.

UTG limps, 1 fold, EP miniraises to .40, 1 fold, MP re-raises to 2.00, folded to me, I call with [Qd] [Qs] limper folds and EP calls. So three people see the flop, EP who was the original raiser, MP who re-raised, and Me.

There's $6.30 in the pot and Flop comes [Js] [Ts] [2c]
I check, EP minibets, MP raises to 4, I fold.

I was considering folding preflop, especially since I was sandwiched, but decided to try to see a flop and take it from there. I'm not too happy with the flop since TT-AA now all beat me and AKs can have flushdraw and gutshot with 2 OC's, making him a favorite over me as well. I'm also worried about a re-raise from EP. I feel my only options here are all-in and fold.

Felt kind of weak afterwards, just passively calling preflop then check-folding. Should I have played this hand differently?
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Postby Aisthesis » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:57 pm

Your play looks right to me. I really think with a raise and re-raise, you're drawing here to the set (for which you do have odds if you don't get sandwiched in a re-raise battle).

At a loose table, you may have laid down the best hand, but I don't think it's really worth it to find out. I think your play here is completely correct.
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Postby droqqa » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:06 pm

Personally, I dont consider this to be a raise and a re-raise. Preflop, Min-raises dont count as raises to me. If I have 67s, or TT, or whatever in LP, and I am considering a raise, if someone makes a real 4xBB raise in front of me, I have to reconsider my strategy. But with a min-raise, I will just go ahead and raise, treating the min-raise as 2 limpers, and make a 6xBB raise, instead of a 4xBB raise. Thus, I dont peg your opponent on AA or KK just yet. If the original raiser made it .80, and then there was a re-raise to $3, then you are probably looking at AA or KK and should fold. But with this min-raise, I would have just taken my usual line with QQ preflop: I would have re-raised to $6 preflop.

D
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Postby iceman5 » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:19 pm

Youre going to reraise to 1/4 of your stack preflop with QQ? The raise to $2 is 10BBs.

Im out of postion here and might just fold it preflop.
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Postby droqqa » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:35 pm

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Postby JJSCOTT2 » Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:31 pm

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Postby Stoneburg » Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:16 pm

Actually EP had ATs and MP had the other two Q's. I recall Ice saying that mini-raise = low/medium PP or Axs, but I've seen AA/KK miniraised a lot lately as well (and cracked them out of the blinds with monsters such as 65o and T8o). EP however not only called the pot-raise but a decent sized turn bet as well with middle pair against a preflop re-raiser... I hope he becomes a regular.
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Postby JJSCOTT2 » Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:00 pm

Ice has said and is completely right a majority of the time that a min raise is either low/med pp, Axs or AA/KK and it is vital to find out which it is for specific opponents and then immediately make a note of that. Everytime I see this move I'm eager to find out which it is so I can make my notes and move on hoping to see them do it again.
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Postby iceman5 » Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:42 pm

Exactly! Anytime I see a min raise preflop, I note it. If I see a guy do it with AA or KK more than once, I will be very careful, but if I see a guy do it with Axs or a low pair, I will sometimes reraise him a health amount with any hand I want to play.

In this case, the MP, may have been reraising to isolate him or may have had a huge hand. I really am not that fond of QQ out of position in this situation and have no problem folding it.
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Postby CipherJr » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:59 pm

Interesting! I'm the other guy with queens here. I think you made the correct thing when you folded on the flop here. And thats not only because I won the pot :lol: I would if I were in your position. I was concerned about what you had and if you had re-raised me all-in on the flop I think I would have folded. (You never know what happens in the heat of battle though.) The hand you had was the last one I expected. Thought you had a pocket pair smaller than mine. So I was glad when you folded. I wasn't really sure about what the other player had. He was very loose (puts money in pot 3 times out of 4) and raised too much pre-flop. He had min-raised with Axs before and once even re-raised all-in with AJs! That time he beat someone with AK. This might have been before you sat down though. What did you think about his min-bet on the flop? Did you think that he had some type of made hand or did you think he was on a draw? With this type of player I tend to think they have a made hand when they bet after the flop. You might remember that the turn card was the eight of spades and hence maybe completing a flush. He checked to me and I bet slightly less than half the pot. He called and I thought that he actually might have the flush. The river card was another eight. He checks again and I checked also. This was probably a mistake. Would you and other people have value bet here? So when I think back on this hand I am happy with my play up until the turn card. Then I think that I might have chickened out a little bit. What do you think?
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Postby Stoneburg » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:19 am

I think you could have bet the full pot on the flop but other than that I think you played it right. When he doesn't raise after mini-beting the flop I think he's either got a draw or a semi-weak hand like TP or MP and wants a cheap showdown.

I'd check behind on the river as well.
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