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New digital camera thread

Postby Felonius_Monk » Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:54 pm

The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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Postby NorthView » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:28 pm

Ha

I've been looking at the same things for months now, and have concluded that:

the difference in image quality between bridge cameras and DSLRS is huge at print sizes over, say, A4/A3, due to the much larger sensors (and therefore lower noise) in the latter. Also, if you want good high ISO quality, then you'll need a DSLR, no question.

the best bridge cameras around are either the Panasonic FZ50/FZ18 (the 50 has a bigger sensor and therefore better IQ, the 18 has a wider zoom range), or the Canon G9

the best value DSLR is probably the Nikon D40X with latest version of the kit zoom lens that includes image stabilisation and is much better quality than its predecessor

number of megapixels means very little after 8MP

check out reviews here
http://www.dpreview.com/
http://www.popphoto.com/default.asp

and UK shop prices here
http://www.jacobsdigital.co.uk/

Also, have nothing to do with Jessops whatsoever. They are scum.

I might return to add a few more things when they come to mind (I was a photographer for a few years ages ago (pre digital), and taught B&W photography for a while)
Mon May 12, 2008 1:46 am
When I play a patient and relaxed game I win - that simple.

Mon May 12, 2008 10:55 pm
Seriously, fuck poker.
==================================================================

[21:03] NorthViewBTP: mac is a fellow mexican
[21:03] Mekosking: yup
[21:03] NorthViewBTP: you should support your bro
[21:03] Mekosking: therefore hes a fat worthless tsr obv
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Postby excession » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:37 am

Nikon DX40 ftw and it's not even close IMHO
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Postby Felonius_Monk » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:26 am

The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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Postby NorthView » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:55 am

Forget any concerns you might have about DSLR complexity - you're honestly not going to find it much of a challenge, and in any case the FZ50 has the same level of complexity as a DSLR apart from the non interchangeable lens.

There will probably be a myriad of options buried away in menus and sub menus on both cameras, but those can wait. It's not a bad idea to stick the auto focus and auto exposure on while you get used to the feel of the camera and the lens range, and just shoot jpegs for a while, then start experimenting with aperture priority and manual focus as you get more comfortable with it.

I think you need to decide what sort of pictures you can see yourself taking, now and in the future, which is pretty difficult and is a good reason to go for the flexibility of a DSLR. If you want the potential to shoot in low light (pubs/gigs/dusk etc) or a proper wide angle, then the D40X is the one. If not, and you're ok with a wide angle restricted to 35mm (I personally think this is really a major drawback), then go for the FZ50 (though bear in mind that it may be replaced by an upgraded model this year, whereas the D40X is a recent upgrade to the D40).

The D40X will probably come bundled with a 27-80mm equiv zoom, but as it's a DSLR you have the option of buying an extra lenses at some point of the future, or you could try to find somewhere that will sell you the camera with a longer zoom as the kit lens at a reasonable price (80mm is ok for head & shoulder portraits, but isn't a real telephoto).

The differences in image quality as a result of sensor size will be negligible in 6x4" prints, but you'll probably find the FZ50 restricts you to small/medium size prints. Take a look at the sensor sizes:

Image

The Nikon's is the APS-C on the right, the FZ50's is the 1/1.8" at the middle of the bottom. There's a factor of 10x in sensor area between the two. As sensor size is analogous to film size from the pre-digital era, it's bigger than the difference between an old Kodak Instamatic and a 35mm film SLR.

Bottom line:
I'd hate to see you spend £300 on an FZ50, only to find in 6 month's time that your newly found interest in shooting wide angle and/or low light and/or producing A4 or larger prints means you've got to fork out another £400+ on a DSLR.
Mon May 12, 2008 1:46 am
When I play a patient and relaxed game I win - that simple.

Mon May 12, 2008 10:55 pm
Seriously, fuck poker.
==================================================================

[21:03] NorthViewBTP: mac is a fellow mexican
[21:03] Mekosking: yup
[21:03] NorthViewBTP: you should support your bro
[21:03] Mekosking: therefore hes a fat worthless tsr obv
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Postby Felonius_Monk » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:53 am

Yeah, I think the D40X might be the best option. TBH, some of the detail shots I've seen with the bridge models don't fill me with a lot of confidence that they're providing quality over and above my compact that's worth the money, and the quality above about ISO400 looks pretty bad. Hopefully I can see it for about £350 somewhere, as it looks like the Nikon £40 cashback finishes tomorrow and I'm just about to go to Switzerland :cry:
The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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Postby excession » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:37 pm

Also the speed from start up to autofocus to finishing the shot on the Nikon is legendary, so if you are shooting moving images or kids that is surely the way to go.

I
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Postby NorthView » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:58 pm

Mon May 12, 2008 1:46 am
When I play a patient and relaxed game I win - that simple.

Mon May 12, 2008 10:55 pm
Seriously, fuck poker.
==================================================================

[21:03] NorthViewBTP: mac is a fellow mexican
[21:03] Mekosking: yup
[21:03] NorthViewBTP: you should support your bro
[21:03] Mekosking: therefore hes a fat worthless tsr obv
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Postby NorthView » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:40 pm

Mon May 12, 2008 1:46 am
When I play a patient and relaxed game I win - that simple.

Mon May 12, 2008 10:55 pm
Seriously, fuck poker.
==================================================================

[21:03] NorthViewBTP: mac is a fellow mexican
[21:03] Mekosking: yup
[21:03] NorthViewBTP: you should support your bro
[21:03] Mekosking: therefore hes a fat worthless tsr obv
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Postby Beavis68 » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:46 pm

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Postby anonuser » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:39 am

If you're interested in saving money you should buy the D40 and not the D40x. All the reviews I've read say that the extra resolution makes no significant difference and in some ways the D40 is actually the better camera. For example, here's what Ken Rockwell has to say:

"For now, I'd pass on the D40x and get a D40 instead. They are the same camera, and the D40x costs much more for no significant change in quality or performance. My two favorite Nikons are my D40 and my D200; I'd pass on the D40x and D80 to save my money to step up directly to the D200 to see any real improvement.

Of course if there was no D40, I'd get the D40x, and at it's price point I still prefer the D40x over any other DSLR. My concern is that I can get the same thing for $200 less in the D40.

Nikon probably added these needless pixels to the D40x to compete with the Canon Rebel XTi on banner specifications that impress innocent people, but do nothing to improve the pictures or usability. Camera performance has little to nothing to do with megapixels. I also own a Canon Rebel XTi, and I hate using it compared to my D40.

The D40x is 95% the same as the excellent D40, with the following changes:

Bad News:

1.) $200 more expensive than the almost identical D40: $799 vs. $599, or 33%!

If money matters, you should put that $200 towards lenses, like the new Nikon 55-200mm VR or the SB-400, not on the D40x vs. the D40. Bouncing the $129 (list) SB-400 flash makes a huge difference in photo quality indoors, and megapixels don't.

2.) Slower default ISO: only ISO 100 compared to D40's ISO 200. This can lead to images blurred from subject or camera motion or reduced depth of field. The higher-speed sensor of the D40 allows the excellent results at ISO 200 while the less sensitive sensor of the D40x requires ISO100 for the same thing.

3.) Slower 1/200 flash sync, down from the excellent 1/500 of the D40. This reduces flash range outdoors, makes it difficult to get sharp flash shots of sports action, and reduces battery life with flash.

Good News:

1.) Slightly higher resolution: D40x images are 3,872 pixels wide versus 3,008 pixels wide in the D40.

So what? Like square footage, megapixels is multiplying image height times image width, so this minor increase looks impressive when multiplied out to 10 MP from the D40's 6MP.

This is only significant if you're printing larger than 13 x 19" (30 x 50 cm) and larger, and even then, not very significant. I've seen 4 x 5 foot prints made from the 6MP D50 which looked spectacular; it's all about knowing what you're doing to get a sharp image. See also The Megapixel Myth.

2.) Slightly faster frame rate: 3 FPS vs. 2.5 FPS. If you're shooting sports, I suggest getting a D200 with 5 FPS to see or feel any real difference. I notice no difference between my 2.5 FPS D40 and my 3 FPS D80."

Rockwell's a bit of legend and tends to know what he's talking about, so I'm personally sold on the D40. Bit gutted I missed out on the 10% off offer at Currys on Xmas day. That would've taken the D40 kit to £269 and with the £30 cashback to £239. Doh! BTW the cashback deal lasts until 7th January, so you still have some time, although I agree it's just marketing and the price is bound to go lower later in the new year.
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Postby Semillon » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:51 pm

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Postby GreaterThanU » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:12 pm

<GreaterThanU> I hope I die
<EscPlan9> !eightball will GTU die soon?
<btpBot> EscPlan9: The outlook is good.
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Postby NorthView » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:59 am

Mon May 12, 2008 1:46 am
When I play a patient and relaxed game I win - that simple.

Mon May 12, 2008 10:55 pm
Seriously, fuck poker.
==================================================================

[21:03] NorthViewBTP: mac is a fellow mexican
[21:03] Mekosking: yup
[21:03] NorthViewBTP: you should support your bro
[21:03] Mekosking: therefore hes a fat worthless tsr obv
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Postby Felonius_Monk » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:54 pm

The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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