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2 pair and lotsa draws vs a pain in my ass (PLO 6-max $25)

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2 pair and lotsa draws vs a pain in my ass (PLO 6-max $25)

Postby MTPaid » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:56 pm

Here's the history. First off, this hand is on Full Tilt so it's bound to be a little crazy. Villain had been playing every hand, but seemed at least a little competant. I had been very LAGish too. We had previously played a hand where I had about 135BB and he covered.

I had AA83 unsuited and limped UTG. Entire table came along and BB raised 1/2 pot. I re-raised to $5.65 and he called. Flop K73 rainbow. He checks, I bet close to 3/4 pot and he shoves. I figure it had to be a set on that board and fold. He shows air and said that he "knew" I didn't have anything. Said he had been watching my play and needed to keep me in line. I lol'ed and he said something about how he does this all day long and knows how to handle certain players....which is why he's playing $25 PLO no doubt.

Anyway, next hand we get involved in not very long after.....
(BTW that's him of course running his mouth at another player now during this hand)

$0.1/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi
6 players
Converted at

Stacks:
UTG ($23.05)
UTG+1 ($18.15)
CO ($59.10)
Hero ($24.50)
SB ($35.65)
BB ($23.65)

Pre-flop: ($0.35, 6 players) Hero is BTN [8s][6s][As][7d]
CO says "MIGHT HAVE FALLEN" ($59.10), UTG calls $0.25 ($22.80), UTG+1 calls $0.25 ($17.90), CO says "MAYBE" ($59.10), CO calls $0.25 ($58.85), Hero calls $0.25 ($24.25), SB calls $0.15 ($35.40), BB checks ($23.40)

Flop: [8d][5h][7s] ($1.5, 6 players)
SB checks ($35.40), BB checks ($23.40), UTG checks ($22.80), UTG+1 checks ($17.90), CO bets $0.75 ($58.10), Hero calls $0.75 ($23.50), SB folds ($35.40), BB folds ($23.40), UTG calls $0.75 ($22.05), UTG+1 folds ($17.90)

Turn: [Ks] ($3.75, 3 players)
UTG checks ($22.05), CO bets $1.85 ($56.25), Hero raises to $5.5 ($18.00), UTG folds ($22.05), CO raises to $20.25 ($36.00), Hero ???
Statler: I wonder if there really is life on other planets?
Waldorf: What do you care? You don't have a life on this planet.
"Muppets In Space"

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"Full Tilt is rigged" - ED
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Postby Kuso » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:14 pm

assuming this is plo and not plo8...

1) AAxx hand... i think you misplayed it. that's an easy cr bluff if villain knows you can fold. i'd just call and look for set value. for me, i need the 3-bet to get >30% of my stack in the pot. even then, i want first-in position so that i can cb (otherwise you can get bluffed off with a first bet push by villain).

2) in the hand shown, why not just call the turn and call the river (unless that spade hits). if he sees that you can't be bluffed with small bets, then you'll cramp his style. when you raised on a draw with a marginal hand (for these stakes), you invited him to push you off your hand. you had position on this guy -- use it. put the tough decisions on him. sometimes flat-calling looks incredibly scary.

another way of putting this is that you made his hand easy to play. if he was betting with crap, then he has an easy fold. if he has a big hand and/or a big draw, he can get all the money in with a theoretical edge. i don't think you should raise here if you're going to fold to the 3bet -- your hand is WAY to strong not to see the river and possibly a showdown (depends on UTG).

and certainly if he has caught you folding to big bets, then you have invited trouble on yourself. the great thing about pot limit games is that you can control the pot size -- especially with position. if you utilize this better than your opponents, you'll come out way ahead. for this particular villain, i probably would avoid playing on a table with him unless i had decent position (+1 or +2 on a 6max table).

one final thought -- find out what this clown does when you value-bet light on the river. that is, if you bet with a non-nut rivered flush, will he call with a str8? or does he try to blow you off your hand? or does he fluctuate based on what you have shown down recently? manage these retards. show them big hands a few times, and then start value betting thin until they start seeing mediocre hands (think janky trips, non-nut flushes, underfulls, etc.), then start showing down big hands again. eventually they'll either stop fucking with you, or they'll give you a lot of money.
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Postby briachek » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:07 pm

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Postby MTPaid » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:17 pm

Yes, it's PLO high, not O8.

I took the chance and raised there because I had a made hand (middle 2 pair) on the turn as well and I didn't want to let him get a cheap look with a pair (K or 8) and overs. Without the 2 pair I would probably just call.

In regards to the first hand, I usually won't raise garbage AAxx hands (as this one was) oop. I figured once he raised, I could isolate with position instead of seeing a family pot where my only hope was flopping a set and then praying for a paired board. And I don't know how he would know that I could fold as he seemed to think that I was getting out of line and he felt it was his responsibility to try and put me back in. He just really didn't think I had anything. So if he thinks I'm crazy and playing AAxx at the $25 level, why would he think I could fold on that rag board?
Statler: I wonder if there really is life on other planets?
Waldorf: What do you care? You don't have a life on this planet.
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The Blog: http://lazyguy.squarespace.com

"Full Tilt is rigged" - ED
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Postby Kuso » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:28 pm

wwcrd?

"that basically sums up poker for me - 12" needle in the testicle." <nutkick> mvp
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Postby MTPaid » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:47 pm

I have no idea what's going through his mind at this level though. If it means anything, I only had 53 on him and here was his stats....

79/21 0.85AF 25 WTSD. He was up to $100 at one point but walked away with like $30 in the end. Almost ALL of his bets were just hitting the 1/2 pot button which Full Tilt has.
Statler: I wonder if there really is life on other planets?
Waldorf: What do you care? You don't have a life on this planet.
"Muppets In Space"

The Blog: http://lazyguy.squarespace.com

"Full Tilt is rigged" - ED
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Postby MTPaid » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:54 pm

Statler: I wonder if there really is life on other planets?
Waldorf: What do you care? You don't have a life on this planet.
"Muppets In Space"

The Blog: http://lazyguy.squarespace.com

"Full Tilt is rigged" - ED
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Location: New Jersey

Postby Kuso » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:24 am

don't just look at the hands you played together, but also all the hands you showed down.

for players who love the half pot bet, take the cheap cards and draw like crazy. don't be afraid to call with non-nut hands.

i find it weird that villain will half-pot it all the time and then pot it on the reraise. it might be that he picked up on a general weakness at these stakes at this site, but it's really easy to trap tards like this and/or chase your draws with good odds.
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Postby MTPaid » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:24 pm

Turned out he had a set. I still had a ton of outs, but was a 63-37 dog when the money went in.

$0.1/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi
6 players
Converted at

Stacks:
UTG ($23.05)
UTG+1 ($18.15)
CO ($59.10)
Hero ($24.50)
SB ($35.65)
BB ($23.65)

Pre-flop: ($0.35, 6 players) Hero is BTN [8s][6s][As][7d]
CO says "MIGHT HAVE FALLEN" ($59.10), UTG calls $0.25 ($22.80), UTG+1 calls $0.25 ($17.90), CO says "MAYBE" ($59.10), CO calls $0.25 ($58.85), Hero calls $0.25 ($24.25), SB calls $0.15 ($35.40), BB checks ($23.40)
ImageImageImageImage 54.00% (EV = $0.56)
ImageImageImageImage 46.00% (EV = $0.44)

Flop: [8d][5h][7s] ($1.5, 6 players)
SB checks ($35.40), BB checks ($23.40), UTG checks ($22.80), UTG+1 checks ($17.90), CO bets $0.75 ($58.10), Hero calls $0.75 ($23.50), SB folds ($35.40), BB folds ($23.40), UTG calls $0.75 ($22.05), UTG+1 folds ($17.90)
ImageImageImageImage 63.30% (EV = $1.62)
ImageImageImageImage 36.70% (EV = $0.63)

Turn: [Ks] ($3.75, 3 players)
UTG checks ($22.05), CO bets $1.85 ($56.25), Hero raises to $5.5 ($18.00), UTG folds ($22.05), CO raises to $20.25 ($36.00), Hero goes all-in $23.5 ($0.00), CO calls $3.25 ($34.60)
ImageImageImageImage 62.50% (EV = $8.22)
ImageImageImageImage 37.50% (EV = -$4.47)

River: [Td] ($50.75, 2 players)
ImageImageImageImage 100.00% (EV = $50.75)
ImageImageImageImage 0.00% (EV = $0.00)

Final Pot: $50.75
CO shows: [Kh][7c][7h][Th]
Hero shows: [8s][6s][As][7d]

CO wins $48.25 ( won +$23.75 )
UTG+1 lost -$0.25
Hero lost -$24.50
SB lost -$0.25
BB lost -$0.25
UTG lost -$1.00
Statler: I wonder if there really is life on other planets?
Waldorf: What do you care? You don't have a life on this planet.
"Muppets In Space"

The Blog: http://lazyguy.squarespace.com

"Full Tilt is rigged" - ED
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