In another topic, someone asked how others take notes of opponents. He had a pretty reasonable idea which I'm going to try. (Maybe stay interested in the first couple of orbits?) I'm going to take a piece of paper, draw out the table with each player, and try to track their play.

Do they raise? 3X?
Cold call raises?
A-anything?
what do they limp with?
Overbet?

I know there's a lot more than that, but it's a start. I'll let you know how this works out for me.

CJ

CJ I was just wondering how your note taking was coming along?

Not well. I think I suffer from attention deficit disorder. Plus I'm playing at levels that just don't require that much dedication. *sigh*

However, when I do it, it's very +EV. What I'm finding is it helps to identify the guy I'm gonna be facing later on that may beat me. The ones that are easy to take notes on, aren't around for very long. So, I try to watch the ones who aren't playing many hands. That's the first. (I tend to do a lot of stuff in the first few orbits--like reading BTP--when I should be observing.) But, when I come back to the table, the first thing I look for is who has pretty much the same starting chips.

When it gets up to say $25/$50, I find it easier to focus. I start looking for betting patterns. NL you hardly ever get to see what their starting hands are, because the good players don't let it get to the river unless they are in the blinds. So you don't know what they're playing. You can see how they bet, and when. Limp early, how often, how big do they raise?

Down the road, when I finally settle on one site to play at exclusively, no doubt the notetaking will really be good, as I probably am going to find the same players showing up more often. That's when it will pay dividends, esp if with notes on the ones that make the final three or four. (The hard part is finding the time to actually write stuff down, because the action is coming so fast.)

How's it going for you?

CJ

It appears I have to unlearn all the bad habits I picked up while playing cash games. Since I played multiple tables there was not much time for reading opponents. Since I have been experimenting with SnG's I really understand why every poker writer places such emphasis on positon and knowing your opponents.

I am "TRYING" to get myself to really pay attention and learn my opponents betting patterns and playing style.

Pre flop I want to know what hands they play from each position and if they limp, call, raise, or reraise with them.

After the flop I am "TRYING" to pay attention and learn how they play Top Pair Top Kicker, big kicker or weak kicker. If they continuation bet, probe bet or value bet and how much. How they bet 2pr, sets and monsters. Finally if they defend their blinds and how they bet big draws (14 or more outs) and regular draws.

I seem to be able to do this automatically when it gets down to four players (A little to Late I think). I am failing big time on paying attention from ten handed to four handed play.

I am working on developing a template to paste into the note section and just fill it out. So far my template is to large.

Paul, early on it's easier to take notes on the bad players than it is on the good players. The bad players simply play more hands. Given my ADD, I come back to the table while surfing and look at the chip stacks. Those who have about the same number of chips, or slightly smaller, are the ones that are going to be there as the table numbers dwindle.

I have a couple of easy tipoffs. Mini-raises. Good players rarely ever use them. Bad players always use them, if they aren't going all in and winning <$100TC in blinds. The things you list are very rare indeed at low limits, and you might actually think you're seeing stuff that isn't actually happening. Continuation bets? Not really, he just thinks he has a good hand that he shouldn't have played from EP in the first place.

The other problem with taking notes is as the table gets shorter, most of the players get more easily confused. Many are absolutely shocked they got this far. They have little idea how to play 4 or 5 handed. Their collars get very tight around their necks and they start to choke.

Try to identify the one or two guys that you'll be facing at the end. Decide your strategy based upon whether they are tight/passive, tight aggressive or loose/passive. If you see a guy who suddenly starts playing more hands fast, stay out of his way. He's probably pretty good. (You might have seen him in early rounds play very few hands and raise 3 or 4X when he does. A good indicator he knows how to play.)

Let's keep 'em coming. Knowing thy enemy is a key to winning. That, and position.

CJ--not an expert, I just play one on BTP.