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Study Hand #2

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Study Hand #2

Postby Cactus Jack » Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:31 pm

Ok, here's your next assignment. This one comes out of Harrington and is very cool.

SNG--5 players left--Blinds 30/60 and you have a medium stack of $1500. You are UTG and find:

[As] [Ts]

You have raised to 180 and the button calls you, the blinds fold. Button has been in a lot of pots, but hasn't shown a lot of hands.

Flop is [Kh] [Tc] [3s]

What do you do?
"Are the players better as the stakes go up? It's not an exam; it's a buyin." Barry Tanenbaum
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Postby Xaston » Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:28 pm

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Postby Twelver » Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:49 pm

Mekos King (10:21:59 PM): one of the first rules of manlaw
Mekos King (10:22:06 PM): is never ever try to suck backup to a bitch
Mekos King (10:22:09 PM): who caught u cheatin
Mekos King (10:22:23 PM): unless your married and would lose like money inna divorce
Mekos King (10:22:33 PM): then u suckup just long enuf to get close enough to killer obv

Heat517163 (5:05:37 PM): black people man
Heat517163 (5:05:40 PM): they travel in packs
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Postby Xaston » Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:06 pm

5 handed!?
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Postby Cactus Jack » Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:32 am

hehe, yeah, this was supposed to go into the SNG Forum. I moved it. RHIP. It's good to be the King. :)
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:10 am

i check and hope to induce a bluff. This not only mixes up your play but it also will get you more chips when he has nothing and save you more chips when he holds a monster.
Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby Cardman » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:32 am

I bet 250-350 (was going to say 300, but someone beat me to it!)
"Sometimes its all about making the wrong move at the right time"
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Postby BigPhish » Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:12 am

Bet 1/2-3/4 pot, probably toward the higher end. 250 sounds about right.

Did I win?
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Postby FISH0621 » Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:28 am

Bet 3/4 the pot about $320
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Postby Cactus Jack » Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:04 am

You have two problems with this hand. First, you have middle pair. If he has a K, you may have some problems. If an A comes, you may have the winning hand, assuming he didn't call with AK. Second, you are out of position. Betting may help define your hand, but it could also cost you a lot of chips.

You check. Villain bets 200 and you call.

Turn is [4c]

You check and villain checks. What does this mean?

River is a blank, no help to either hand, you think. You check, and villain bets 400.

What do you do?
"Are the players better as the stakes go up? It's not an exam; it's a buyin." Barry Tanenbaum
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Postby BigPhish » Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:04 pm

If you're afraid to put chips first in on that flop, maybe you shouldn't be playing a S&G.

Check / Check depends on my read. It probably means villain was trying to take the pot with less than TPGK on the flop. He could have 2nd pair like me, could have a bottom pair, or a random pocket pair lower than 10's. Could have AQ, AJ, or just 2 random cards. You said he liked to play a lot of hands.

The river bet means the same thing. You have done nothing at all to show any strength so villain thinks he can take the hand from you. He doesn't like to show hands down and the only way to prevent that is to bet here. Since you have done nothing to show any strength, you have absolutely no idea what villain is holding.

I'd have bet the flop and, from there, everything would have been different.

I'd also bet the river after his turn check.

I'm now in a situation where I've horribly misplayed my hand so... do I call? I think I'm ahead of him at this point, so yes. I call.
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:29 pm

The check-check on the turn means he's not in love with his hand, and he doesn't think he's ahead. If he did, he'd bet for value here. When you check the river however he thinks he might be able to steal it away from you with whatever rags he holds, it's basically the same reason you checked the flop, so when he bets you call.

I think the check on the flop was correct becase, well put yourself in the Villian's position. If the PFR checks into me, i'd most likely bet either the flop or turn (if he checked again) thinking he had missed the flop and was afraid to commit chips, trying to steal the hand away with a hand that wouldn't hold up at showdown.
Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby Cactus Jack » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:51 pm

"There is a move strong players occasionally make which I call the bet-check-bet move. Here's how it works. You're holding a hand like AK and you get a flop like the one we have here, k-x-x. You make a bet of half the pot on the flop, which might indicate strength or might be a standard continuation bet. Your opponent calls. On fourth street, you check, indicating the bet was just a standard continuation bet. On fifth street you bet again, indicating the pot could be stolen and you're making a stab at it. When this play works, your opponent calls or raises you on the end with a medium or small pair, figuring you missed your hand and you win a big pot.

"It's a tool in the arsenal of all top players."

How often do you see players go broke with middle pair? Those of you who raised this hand preflop were playing too aggressive. Way. ATs is a marginal hand. Those who played middle pair are asking to go broke.

I posted this hand because it's buried within a hand problem and thought it was a fascinating play, not one that is highlighted and could easily be overlooked when reading through HOH2.

I'm through my third or fourth time now with HoH2. There's a ton of fascinating stuff in here. Enough to keep me studying for years. More and more, I'm seeing exactly what he's talking about and how to play it.

What did you think of this? Should we do more?

CJ
"Are the players better as the stakes go up? It's not an exam; it's a buyin." Barry Tanenbaum
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:08 pm

You think ATs is marginal even when it's 5 handed? If i'm playing 5 handed and look down at ATs, I think i'm holding a monster. I'm dominated by about 7 hands and have everything else beat. I think playing ATs UTG at a 5 handed table is fine, as long as you don't go crazy with it post-flop.
Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby BigPhish » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:42 pm

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