Iceman said "Atlanta...here is what I wrote about them last week..."Why dont they just move Vick to WR or RB and admit that he cant read a defense? Hes probably the fastest guy in the league and I think hes got the strongest arm in the league, but that means nothing if he cant figure out where to throw the ball." Did any of you watch the Monday night game? Vick sucks as a QB. Move him to RB or WR. Let him run back kicks and punts. Use his skills. Jesus christ! The guy cant play QB just because he has a rocket arm. If he hurt his ankle and couldnt run =, would you want him playing QB? I doubt it...so just move him to somewhere where he can run and doesnt have to play QB. Hes not good. The avg QB rating for all QBs is 86. Vicks liftime rating is 75.2. Its 63.0 this year and he has NEVER been over 86 in any year. "

First of all, it's easy to tell a guy driving a pick up that he needs a station wagon to haul his kids, but if he has no way to get a better vehicle, he'd better hang on to the truck. Good quarterbacks are hard to come by, and Vick is the first winning one they've had since Bartkowski. do you really think they'd be better off talking him into being a wideout and hiring Testeverde?

He did have a horrible game Monday night, if you want to take the worst game of Vick's career as prime face evidence he's a bad quarterback, no one can stop you, but Culpepper had several awful games in a row this year, and I haven't heard anyone suggest he can't play.

As far as his QB rating goes. He has always had a weak receiving corps, and until last year a weak offensive line. If QB ratings accounted for dropped balls that were thrown well Vick's would be much higher. He usually has at least 2 or 3 good ones dropped a game.

Atlanta still does not have a great wide receiver, if the defense always had to worry about a sure handed, very fast, deep threat on every play, it would be even harder to contain Vick and stop the run, besides the occasional bomb that would be caught. If he didn't have Algae Crumpler Vick's rating would probably be 50.

You also cannot look at Vick's rating in a vacuum. You have to consider his running. A QB with a 70 rating who runs for 50 yards a game, and makes a couple of 1st downs a game when the typical QB would have been sacked has got to be as good as a QB with an avg rating. Vick's running skills also make the defense play almost as if the Falcons had 12 men on offense. I think of it like figuring the EV when buffing with a draw, the times the opponent folds sometimes makes it a profitable play, you cannot just figure it on the odds of making your hand where you are an underdog.

Finally. Don't win loss records count for anything? That's what we judge pitchers on in baseball, and they probably have less control than a QB. I think Vick's record as a starter is 28/9 without a great supporting cast. The Falcons look to be on their way to back to back winning seasons for the first time in their history. Sounds like a silly time to change QBs.

Disclaimer: I live in Atlanta and am a lifelong Falcons fan, yes I am a homer.

In defense of Vick, he never was a good QB. So his failure now should be expected.

Good response. A for effort. I give up, you are incorrigable. I think there are plenty of folks who aren't ATL fans who think Vick is a good QB, but it is hard for me to step outside of rooting for them. BTW comparing Vick to Stewart is a mortal sin, and if there is a Falcon hell, you are going there, lol.

Vick is failing? You guys set the bar really high.

I just hate scrambling QB's. How many have won SB's? 2: Elway, whose days of scrambling were long over by then and Young who at the time was the NFL all-time leader in accuracy. Vick's passing skills should be compared to Jeff Blake. Strong arm who can throw the deep ball with ease but is not accurate. And as a side point, the Seahawks beat ATL. Not really relevant but I wanted to say it.

Actually, scrambling QBs have done pretty well in the NFL, but running QBs have not. Vick is a runner playing QB.

I consider Young, Favre, Brady, Elway and guys like that to be scramblers. Guys who can get out of trouble in the backfield but still look to throw first and run if they have to.

Roethlisberger has shown similar instincts. He can run for a 1st down when he needs to, but he always looking down field even as hes scrambling.

Vick is looking to run as soon as the pocket gets crowded.

CJ: If you are asking if I would trade Vick for Montana, Young or Elway, sure. I am not saying Vick is the greatest QB ever, just that he is good. NWCouger actually thinks Vick is a failure.

I have wondered CJ, whether Vick is smart enough to be really great. He doesn't seem real sharp in interviews, but I think that's because he doesn't open his mouth when he talks.

Iceman, I am open to looking at stats. Who knows a good free site for football stats?

Vick doesn't have much time to get better. If he was going to be better, he already should have been better. He's not going to suddenly metamorphose into a drop back passer with deadly accuracy. He's too short! He can't see over linemen, and isn't sharp enough to move a step to find a lane, ala Brady. (Brady a scrambling QB, iceman??? Dude is the slowest guy on the team. His time in the 40 was clocked with a sundial!)

I'm not a big fan of McNabb, either. Watch when he's under a lot of pressure to make a completion. Watch how often he throws it into the ground.

An NFL QB wins championships with his brain more than with his arm, his mind than his feet, much more with his mental ability than his physical ability. We may marvel at the way Vick runs, but he's proven already that he won't run to the Super Bowl championship. He may have an arm that can throw mighty passes, but so did Jeff George.

Vick is what he is. He'll never be more than he is now. He'd have made a helluva centerfielder, if he could hit a curve ball.

CJ

I'll chime in....

I think he is a 'winning' QB...is he top 5 , no! But I defineately put him in the top 10.

Although he does have some picks, I think overall he does a nice job of managing the game.

And he sure is fun to watch!

I'm glad a couple of people who recognize Vick is good have chimed in. I think some folks like to be contrarian, and enjoy disparaging anyone who is suddenly everyone's darling and getting a lot of attention. It's the grown up version of, "these pants are cool, noone is wearing them", "now that everyone is wearing these pants, it's cool not to like them."

if Vick can avoid a career ending injury, I think he'll retire with one of the better W/L records. hall of fame? superbowls? who knows.

His two full seasons, in 2002 and 2004, were pretty good. 50 yards rushing per game lifetime is also pretty dynamite. From what I understand, Vick has been bothered by a bad hammy and knee this year, so that could explain his terrible last two games. if you look at his games before he missed week 5, they were quite good.

His numbers are sort of similar to early Kordell's, though i think Vick's are solidly better. However, you could also compare Vick's numbers to early McNabb. Took McNabb awhile to make the leap.

***********************************************************************************************
2002....

QB rating..81.6
Completion %...54.9%
Yards per att....6.97
TD- INT ratio..........16 / 8

2004

QB rating...78.1
Comp %.....56.4%
Yards per att....7.21
TD-INT ratio......14 / 12

Congrats Mr Vick...your best 2 seasons your QB rating is below avg. You tards per att is low which means you throw the ball short alot which should give you a comp % of over 60%, but you are very inaccurate. 50 yards running per game? Cool, lets make him a RB then.

David Carr in 2004

QB rating....83.5
Comp %...61.2%
Yards per att....7.58
TD - INT ratio.....16 / 14

David Carr who is a complete bust is a better thrower than Vick.

CJ, Brady isnt a runner but he is very shifty in the pocket. Hes tough to sack which should be the main goal of a QB when hes under pressure.


K.Stewart's lifetime QB rating is 70.7. Vicks is 75.2. The avg for all NFL QBs is 86. Vick has a long way to go to even get to avg.