First, let me point out that I am 33 year old investment professional with an MBA. I took up poker a few years ago as a hobby/part time money maker. I am very in tune with statistics and extrapolating what they mean. I have a solid understanding of NLHE at this point, having read all the key books and incorporating them into my "style", which I believe is tight-aggressive, not tight-passive or tight-weak. But I digress,

Ever since I got caught up in keeping track of all of my SNGs (now 811 - 500+ at the $5.50s 275+ at the $11s with about 20 at the $22s), I've been focused on things like ROI and ITM. One of the common statements I have heard on this and other boards is that a GREAT SNG player should have an ROI above 30%, or something like that at the levels I have been playing. This, of course, has me thinking a lot about my game.

When I started off this year playing for real money with a $100 bankroll focusing on SNGs at Pacific, my first 100 games had an ITM of 58% and an ROI of 61%. I thought I was God of the $5.50 SNGs. Eventually I moved on to other sites where I could multi-table and have a better skill advantage (i.e., more chips, better blind structure, etc.) and as a result, I have seen my numbers come off. My ITM remains strong at 45%, but the ROI has come down quite a bit. What inevitably happens is I'll talk about my stats on this and other boards and people will say things like:

1) Your ROI sucks, your heads up game must be weak
2) You must be sneaking into the money and getting too many thirds
3) Play a hundred heads up SNGs to work on your heads up game

Some of this has some merit, and I have worked to improve my heads up game. It does make me wonder how many SNGs these other "experts" on the board have played though when they make these comments, as if your sample size is too low (less than 3-400 I'd say, these players may be running hot, like I was early on), it may lead you to believe that you are a better player than you really are because of the small sample size.

I feel like my numbers are pretty solid when I take into consideration the fact (and nobody knows this but me), that I got my chips in the middle with the best of it in upwards of 80% of the games where I've been knocked out of the SNG (and probably 95% of the time when I got knocked out 4th or worse (i.e., pick your suck out hand here). In my sample size of games, I have found that it is not possible to control every aspect of the game (duh). I got knocked out of the money 3 times last night (I'll spare you the bad beat stories) when I had the best of it and there's not one damn thing I can do about it, and I would argue that many of the board members would make the same plays that I did (like there are 4 players, you are in the BB with 9s and three limpers - you push here - I did, got called with 6s and he catches f'ing trips - this is at a $22 game, so it f'ing hurts).

The short of it is that I have found that all you can really control in SNGs (and poker in general) is getting your chips in the middle when you have the best of it and that is the real mark of a solid player, not in your ITM or ROI (although these are good barometers). All you can control is your decisions, not the decision of the fish to chase that 3 outer and hit it and send you to the "virtual" rail.

Maybe I'm just a little fired up this morning, but I just thought I'd share some opinions and offer some other advice to players who get caught up in their numbers too.

Thanks for the feedback Tommy. Yes I think its out of my system

Appreciate it.
Keith

Kdiddy...your doing fine. I used to go to rgp or rpg and 2+2 for help but always ended up getting blasted by a so called expert who I found out later couldn't check raise my 18 month old successfully. I found you all by accident and sure am glad I did. This place is like Cheers for the Poker Player. Everyone knows your name and will give you good advice and a great deal of ribbing. Which ever suits the situation best. Have a Great Day

Thanks Devil,

You know I actually agree with you about BTP. There aren't a ton of posters, but I do know them by now and find myself rooting for their success. They have all given me good advice that I have incorporated into my game. They also show up from time to time online and give you a "how's it going" - its pretty cool.

I like Unitedpokerforum as well, although some of their posters can be snippy. 2+2 has some highly skilled posters, but they are often on another planet it seems.

Cheers! and welcome to the board, please keep posting.

Amen !!!

A big thank you to all posters and a special thanks to the moderators who keep this site very civilazed.

I BTP

Mine is 41%.

95 1sts
122 2nds
151 3rds

total 368 ITM out of 816.

What does that mean to you? My guess is lower than 40% is good (and I should continue trying to reduce my 3rds). I've been tracking my 4ths/ITM as you suggested, which is at 29%, and I'm trying to lower that to below 20% as you suggested, by gettting a little more aggressive in the middle stages - so I'm not as short-stacked by the time I get into the money.