Guys,

You are familiar with my story about starting with $100 and working my way through the ranks in the SNGs. My current bankroll is $675 (after taking $700 out for fun and games) and has been as high as $775 and moved down to $620 (in the last few weeks). I have been using the 30 buyin bankroll constraint to move up. $675 puts me in the $22s, which I've played 36 games. Here are my stats, which absolutely BLOW:

total won $540
total wagered $792
Plus/Minus $(252)
ITM% 31%
ROI% -32%

1st = 2
2nd = 2
3rd = 7
4th = 8
5th-6th = 10
7th-10th = 7

I have been playing fairly solid poker, although last night 4 handed I flat out refused to fold my queens after making a big raise and got re-raised by two players all in, one had aces, the other AQ. I don't know what I was thinking. The players had been tight before that. I simply misplayed another hand when, 4 handed a guy clearly had a straight and I pushed with top two pair.

In my 329 $11 SNGs, my stats are solid:
Itotal won ....... $4,334
total wagered. $3,619
Plus/Minus...... $715
ITM%.............46%
ROI%............20%

I know that some of this may be variance, and as I look at my first 25 or so $11 SNGs, I had trouble at that level as well before hitting a run and reaching the comfort zone. That's really the problem, I think is that I haven't been able to put together a little run in the $22s, so I keep going back and forth, straddling the $11s and $22s. Mentally, I can handle dropping 5-8 buyins at the $11 level, but last night, taking 3 4ths when I played very well at the $22s (minus a couple hands that cost me), it really ticked me off.

I'm thinking that I need to fire up another 50 or so $11s and get the bankroll up another couple hundred bucks before making a full on commitment at the $22s. I KNOW that I can play at that level, I just need to get more comfortable with the normal variance.

What do you guys think? Thanks

I think your thinking is perfect.

There could be some coincidental variance going on there -- where your normal, expected turns to lose are just happening more at the 20s. And it could be a little bit of scared money playing there, but you're the only one who could know that for sure.

I'm going through the exact same thing ... have been for months ... trying to move from the 20s to the 30s. I got frustrated with it to the point a month or so ago that I decided to not even think about moving up for now, just stay at the 20s and grind out some profits. The same thing happened to me when I tried to move from 10 to 20, although that move didn't take me so long as this one has.

I think you're correct in planning to keep the 11s as your home base to build up your bankroll. And when you feel you're playing your best, take a stab at a couple of 20s. If you bomb out in the 20s, go back to the 11s and take a breather for about a week. Then take another couple of stabs at 20 to see how it goes. Just keep doing that until you nail a couple of 20s.

It's just a question of getting over the hump. And, really, it's a psychological barrier. You just have to keep working at it until it happens for you. Don't let yourself get frustrated. Stay smart and determined. Remember, poker is a game of patience.

Thanks Fishy, that's exactly what I was thinking. Good to know that it happens to others as well. Appreciate it.

WOW... I'm just honored to be FIRST on that list.... Suck THAT Nash... I'M the new Grand Marshall around here...!!! Obviously, this was a mistake on kdiddy's part, but I'll take whatever little recognition I can get...

Anyways, all BS aside... I can relate to your problems Kdiddy... ANYTIME you move up, it hurts when you either: a. play dumb (calling 2 allins w/ pocket Qs comes to mind...) or b. get butt molested without any lube (how I swear I lose EVERY game... "If luck wasn't a factor, I'd never lose... ")...

I'd probably advise a couple things...

1. there's no shame in moving down... Hell, I used to play NL$400... Now I'm fishin it up in the $50NL games... The big deciding factor there was when I threw a chair thru a wall at work I just couldn't deal with losing $400 a couple times a day as a huge favorite, even if I was winning more than I was losing... Someone sucking out on my in the $50NL games is just more of a pain in the ass, like a little hemmheroid on the ass of my poker life, and I can deal w/ the stress better...

2. Not sure how many SNGs you play in a day, but I would advise staggering it between $10s and $20s, slowly putting $20s back in until you're comfortable taking the swings that are going to obviously come from winning/losing more per game... Like, maybe start w/ 1 out of 5 being a $20... then one out of 4 after a week... then move up until they're all $20s and you're kickin ass again... It used to happen to me when I was playing $100s that I would get knocked out 4th as ONLY a 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% favorite, and it DEFINITELY had an effect on future games... I would push early with AA, get called by A5, and just be sitting there WAITING for the straight to hit... That was the #1 reason why I moved down...

3. Obviously, you know you don't have enough games at the $20s... Hell, there's been times when I was out of the money on 7 or 8 in a row (yes, even the great ones like me struggle sometimes ), and other times when I've placed in 7 or 8 and won 4 in a row... It's all varience...

Hope all my ramblings help…

The punishment continues. Its downright ridiculous. I just can't F'ING break through in the $22s!!! This weekend, I'm 8/17 ITM in the $11s and 0/3 in the $22s. Pushed the bankroll up through $800. Man, its just brutal.

It makes me feel like I just suck. I mean, I do great in the $11s. The game is the same, its just like my luckbox is smashed in the $22s. Ugh. My play in those 3 haven't been bad.

first one:
pushed all in pre-flop on a raise ahead of me with kings - dude called with 10s and hit one on the flop. This is your typical suck out.

second one:
got short-stacked and hit trips on the turn. I had to slow play it to try and get back into it, and the guy caught a straight on the river.

third one:
got f'd on the river by a guy that doesn't comprehend pot odds and I got sucked out. Then got short-stacked and hit top pair on the flop from the SB - only to be outkicked by a big stacked limper. I overplayed this one for sure.

So, I'm making money, doing well, but just can't break through.

K... Where are you playing these SNGs...? When I hit a little slump, I would sometimes find a pick-me-up by playing at a site with a TOTALLY different structure... Like, UB has the lower blinds and more chips, Party has the nutso 800 & quick blind movement... Bodog is kinda in the middle...

Sometimes you're overplaying hands, where UB would be a little more forgiving... Sometimes, you're playing a little weak/tight, where Party would be the better games to play, and let the nuts knock each other out...

Other than that, although it sucks to go 0 for 3, you still don't have enough games under your belt to say for sure whether it's you or bad luck...

Thanks fishy. Its tough to say really, I just played another $22 after dropping 2 $11s. I think its kind of funny how I can shrug off the $11 losses to variance, but the $22s mean I suck. It has to be a mental block. I'm trying to overcome it. I will I'm sure.

In the $22 game, I had a hand where I min-raised from MP with A 10 sooooooted, flop had two of my sooted cards (with a J K in there). I through out a little "let's see the turn bet" and one guy called the other bowed out. The turn was a jack (not of my soot). I through out another little raise, dude calls. I hit my flush on the river!!! I push all in (had him covered with $360 to spare) and he shows me his full house jacks over kings and I begin the sobfest. Now, that's just poker, can't do a think about it.

Later on I made a mini-comeback, but when I had A 6 in the BB with 3 players left and the flop came 6 2 4, I pushed and a bigger stack with 10s immediately called. To make it more sad, he hit his 10 on the turn and an ace came on the river - killing my beautiful suck out moment and putting me out in 5th place.

Another hand of note that was earlier that let me get back in it. I had pocket 4s in the BB with $590 left (50/100 blinds). Button min-raised and I PUSH. He calls to show his pocket 4s!!! Laughter ensues until.

I hit the Full Tilt Poker famous four card flush board that gave me the heart flush.

Look at it realistically here. The stuff you're describing is the cards conspiring against you, which does happen no matter what level, no matter what game. Bad-card runs aren't any more or less frequent or frustrating at $33 than they are at $22 than they are at $11. Just more (or less) expensive -- which is where proper bankroll management comes into play.

I'm right there with you Diddy, moving from $22 to $33. I finally had a run over the weekend where I moneyed in four $33s in a row. Though it wasn't an overwhelming success in terms of ROI because there were no firsts in there, it did make me feel like maybe I finally have turned the corner.

Don't get stressed out about it. If you have the bankroll to support it, keep plugging away. It'll happen.