After getting screwed by two, two outters in a matter of 5 minutes I decided to play a mini, I got this hand relatively early in the mini. Did i play this right or should I have folded. As you can read by my comments I had a bad feeling he had AK and I had just gotten rivered. At this point I'm getting almost 4:1 on my call.

***** Hand History for Game 1444503706 *****
NL Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:8719805 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Sunday, January 16, 05:59:50 EDT 2005
Table Table 11075 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 3: junglelove69 ( $645 )
Seat 7: ASUlv8 ( $760 )
Seat 9: riverfeverr ( $930 )
Seat 10: sgulati ( $665 )
Seat 1: IzFish ( $760 )
Seat 4: lowpr ( $1170 )
Seat 6: gatto44 ( $1485 )
Seat 5: SirWhineALot ( $760 )
Seat 2: Lord_Lexx ( $825 )
Trny:8719805 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to IzFish [ 8d 8s ]
lowpr raises [30].
SirWhineALot folds.
gatto44 calls [30].
ASUlv8 folds.
riverfeverr folds.
sgulati calls [30].
IzFish calls [30].
Lord_Lexx calls [20].
junglelove69 calls [15].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, 8c, Kd ]
Lord_Lexx bets [15].
junglelove69 folds.
lowpr raises [30].
gatto44 calls [30].
sgulati calls [30].
IzFish calls [30].
Lord_Lexx calls [15].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9h ]
Lord_Lexx bets [15].
lowpr raises [250].
gatto44 folds.
sgulati folds.
IzFish calls [250].
Lord_Lexx folds.
** Dealing River ** [ Ad ]
lowpr is all-In [860]
IzFish: i think i got rivered
IzFish is all-In [450]
lowpr shows [ As, Ks ] a full house, Kings full of aces.
IzFish shows [ 8d, 8s ] a full house, Eights full of kings.
IzFish finished in ninth place.
lowpr wins 410 chips from side pot #1 with a full house, Kings full of aces.
lowpr wins 1745 chips from the main pot with a full house, Kings full of aces.
IzFish has left the table.

My opinion is that there were two certain things that was gonna happen with this flop. Your chips were going into the middle and so were his.

Even pre-flop if you went all in with your 8's (why you would, I don't know), then you would more than likely get a call from the AK holder. Any other amount of raise and he's gonna call.

I'm surprised that the chips didn't hit the centre before the river. With his raise on the turn I would've been all in then but he's more than likely going to call. If you had gone all in at that point maybe he would've stopped to think you had 8's or 9's or maybe even k9 but I can't see him folding.

You didn't get all in until the river. You made your hand after the flop. Looks like you tried to slow play in order to get more chips. You should have been all in after the flop and for sure after the turn. You let him stay in the hand way to cheap. He would have called any way. But the might not have hit then either.

Just some thoughts.

yeah i did try to slow play but this guy was going to call either way as you said. I was pretty sure that the raiser either had AK or KQ the way he played it after the flop, it was a call me please bet, for all involved after he hit his big flop. I was really trying to bet the other guy trapped in the middle and tripple up. I really felt like I made a bad play calling his all in bet here. I still had 450 chips left which was enough to make a decent comback and i was pretty sure the river beat me.

Tough way to get rivered like that, but I do think you could have played this hand alot better on the flop.

You need to make a raise there, because the field is large and because of the nature of the flop. People won't put you on 88 in a million years. That means, worst case, they think you have a king. More likely, they think that you would slowplay with a king, so you are either bluffing or you have some pocket pair. The point is, you are very likely to get called even if you bet the pot. There's no excuse for not at least betting half the pot.

Whatever money you have left should go in on the turn.

At a $10 SNG, at least 3 of your opponents are complete morons 90% of the time. Half the time, 5 of your opponents are morons. The rest of the players are often not that great either. The worst thing you can do at this "mini" stakes table is to overthink.

PLAY SOLID, TIGHT AGGRESSIVE POKER. That is usually the best way to go in these games. Give your opponents chances to make very expensive mistakes against you. and who knows, next time this situation comes up you might get rivered by a guy with 99 who hits another 9 on the river. Then you'll at least feel gratified that the money went in on the flop.

There are two points here, I think there are two reasons why I didnt push the flop, first with this weak a competition at a $10 mini, I want as many people in this hand as possible. Flopping a boat I am hoping that on the turn one of the morons picks up a draw either a flush draw or a str8 draw. Problem #2 here is I am very deep stacked compared to the minimum bet, the other reason I didnt push on the flop is after the turn card there are 4 or 5 cards that kill my FH and will cause me to fold, if another K hits or the board pairs again I fold my 88 with no problem.

My friend, your two points are self contradictory -- if you understand how poor the competition is, then I don't see how you would change your play based on a fear that a four-outer would hit AND that your opponent would then have enough of a hand to beat you.

I still think you have a critical misunderstanding of exactly HOW the average SNG player is bad. He is bad because he is in a hurry to get his chips in the middle of the pot.

What do we know about bad players?
(1) They don't understand pot odds
(2) They play too loose before the flop (and on all streets)
(3) They will often overvalue draws
(4) Many will push all-in preflop with sub-premium (TT, 99, AQ) type hands in an SNG
(5) Most are straightforwardly readable -- in this case, you can be sure that mr. minimum raise after minimum bet thinks he has a DAMN good hand.

Meanwhile, if nobody has a king and the case 8, you have the NUT HAND on the flop. So, in summary, you're playing somebody who calls too much, thinks he has a great hand, and CERTAINLY has a hand so far worse than yours that he's drawing to maybe a four or five outer.

This is one of the easiest times to make a big bet on the flop. I'm not necessarily advocating an all in, but you should at least be raising a large amount (i.e. "bet the pot"). However, given that most bad players don't understand pot odds, I would probably overbet the pot because I think he's going to call and I'm sure it would be a mistake for him to call.

Hi,

Slowplaying is hardly ever the best way to go only if you had KK here it would be an option.
You got the best hand with the best POSITION an you wasted it all by calling the flop bet. This is NL let them pay.
You let 4 other players in for free do you want to get beaten?. They could have 99,1010,JJ,QQ,AA,AK or K anything and they can all beat you with one card.
With 5 people in, the chance that one will catch is BIG. ( do the math yourself ).
I am sorry but I don't think you could have played it much worse.

A pot bet or something like $400 would have been my bet. I want that one or two ( would be best ) Kings to call that bet and others out. Because palyers won't fold any K I want my money in with the best hand.

Before you call you say "I think I got rivered ". You still have 450 left. I know this is very hard to do but folds like this makes you long term money if you have such a good read.

Just my thoughts.

Tommyhawk.

By the way, I don't think he could have folded the river, because only AK, KK, or K8 beat him. We've got good reason to believe that he would play the same way if he has Kx, and you're at a $10+1 SNG. This is not the time to be making "world class laydowns"